What goes on in your mind?

[Tony datoy]

Colour, I dislike red and yellow...

Oh, and gold...

[Calculus Bikes]

can someone translate the terms into english?

 

what is ride characteristics?

And how do you determine value?

 

dont mean to nitpick, but I am considering a new bike and am thinking of my buying decision.

Hi Slowbee.

I would translate the terms mentioned as follows:

• Ride Characteristics: how the bike feels and behaves 
• Value: Bang for your buck (usually relating to components)

Does this make sense?

Kind regards

CB

[ChrisF]

Had a nice chat with a friend today .... he is in the market for a full suspension bike ....

 

 

Some of the things we spoke about -

 

- material - carbon fibre not in his budget.  Thus narrowing down the field immediately.

 

- Local content - he actually wants to buy local.  NOT excluding imported bikes, but if the final choice is close it would go local.  Which led to another discussion, where we both had to admit we know pretty little about local options ..... ADVISE WELCOME

 

- "Triangle size" .... with many of the options you cant fit even one full sized water bottle in the "triangle" .....  He has done W2W and similar multi-day rides where 2 bottles or a camelback is needed.

 

- XC vs Trail - NOT sure which way to go here -  ADVISE WELCOME

 

- 1x or 2x ..... My suggestion was 2x.  Purely because in my mind a 1x dont offer both the low climbing option AND the higher gear ratio for the faster sections of his multi-day rides .... again -  ADVISE WELCOME

 

- horizontal or vertical shock - ..... spoke about it a lot, neither of us know enough about this to make any recommendation...... again,  ADVISE WELCOME

 

 

 

This debate was about design concepts and functionality, NOT about any specific brand .... though I did recommend he go speak to Mike at Specialized and Marnitz at CWC.

[Heel Drop]

There's a bit more to include in your list...

 

coolness / uniqueness of the brand

frame material (e.g. if you're a steel or Ti guy, nobody will ever sell you a carbon steed, no matter how much of the other boxes are ticked)

standard component spec (some bikes just come with a poor wheelset, sloppy fork or just a complete lucky packet mixture of groupset components (e.g. sram shifters, shimano derailleurs, avid brakes, raceface crank, ritchey post, thomsen stem etc... and that just doesn't work for me).

 

So to me it comes down to

1 frame material

2 component spec

3 value / coolness.  I want to say value comes 3rd, but coolness often weighs more than people like to admit...

4 support, brand presence, performance of pro riders etc. are way down on the list to me at least

 

riding characteristics is a function of the type of bike that you buy and the quality of your wheelset/groupset/fork etc., thus not so much the brand.  Geometry (head tube & seat tube angles, tube lengths and stuff) are 98% the same between all the major brands/manufacturers, and very few people have the ability to "feel" the marginal stiffness differences when comparing frames that are in the same price bracket.

I have had a few bikes 

 

first one 26er Merida - first bike - nice did not really care 

second looked for good value for money and upgrade to 29er with good spec and good value - got a silverback storm - great bike 

third one - wanted high spec - support local and light frame so I bought a momsen frame sl929 and added top spec groupset etc then I had to deal with Momsen on a warranty claim - never again

fourth  bike - looked for good bike all round service / support and good warranty - spez - sold if after a year due to the thing needing more attention then my whole family combined 

now - simplicity , low maintenance , mid range affordable groupset that fit my style ( 2x11) so imported a nice ti frame with a lauff fork and XT groupset and its a hardtail - could not be happier with the choice - its insured so I dont care if it breaks - I look after it and I take it to my choice of Shop that gives a good service and if they dont I move on- its about riding my bike - simple and raw - the simpler the better - I want to ride not drive up and down to bike shops trying to figger out what the latest creeck is - I just want to ride - simple - keep it simple 

[Calculus Bikes]

Had a nice chat with a friend today .... he is in the market for a full suspension bike ....

 

 

Some of the things we spoke about -

 

- material - carbon fibre not in his budget.  Thus narrowing down the field immediately.

 

- Local content - he actually wants to buy local.  NOT excluding imported bikes, but if the final choice is close it would go local.  Which led to another discussion, where we both had to admit we know pretty little about local options ..... ADVISE WELCOME

 

- "Triangle size" .... with many of the options you cant fit even one full sized water bottle in the "triangle" .....  He has done W2W and similar multi-day rides where 2 bottles or a camelback is needed.

 

- XC vs Trail - NOT sure which way to go here -  ADVISE WELCOME

 

- 1x or 2x ..... My suggestion was 2x.  Purely because in my mind a 1x dont offer both the low climbing option AND the higher gear ratio for the faster sections of his multi-day rides .... again -  ADVISE WELCOME

 

- horizontal or vertical shock - ..... spoke about it a lot, neither of us know enough about this to make any recommendation...... again,  ADVISE WELCOME

 

 

 

This debate was about design concepts and functionality, NOT about any specific brand .... though I did recommend he go speak to Mike at Specialized and Marnitz at CWC.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the notes. 

You mention a couple of interesting points.

 

The triangle is a fixed measure, but there is always the option of putting a small bottle under the saddle/on seat post that could give you more carry capacity.

 

Where the shock sits doesn't matter.  It's about the linkage and suspension design as a whole that defines the characteristic, so look at it as a whole.

 

For the rest of your considerations such as XC vs Trail and 1x vs 2x I would direct the discussion more towards what is the bike going to be used for 80% of the time.  When you know that then you can make a much better choice.

 

Hope this give a bit clarity.

 

Ride safe,

CB

[SeanGrey]

Had a nice chat with a friend today .... he is in the market for a full suspension bike ....

 

 

Some of the things we spoke about -

 

- material - carbon fibre not in his budget. Thus narrowing down the field immediately.

 

- Local content - he actually wants to buy local. NOT excluding imported bikes, but if the final choice is close it would go local. Which led to another discussion, where we both had to admit we know pretty little about local options ..... ADVISE WELCOME

 

- "Triangle size" .... with many of the options you cant fit even one full sized water bottle in the "triangle" ..... He has done W2W and similar multi-day rides where 2 bottles or a camelback is needed.

 

- XC vs Trail - NOT sure which way to go here - ADVISE WELCOME

 

- 1x or 2x ..... My suggestion was 2x. Purely because in my mind a 1x dont offer both the low climbing option AND the higher gear ratio for the faster sections of his multi-day rides .... again - ADVISE WELCOME

 

- horizontal or vertical shock - ..... spoke about it a lot, neither of us know enough about this to make any recommendation...... again, ADVISE WELCOME

 

 

 

This debate was about design concepts and functionality, NOT about any specific brand .... though I did recommend he go speak to Mike at Specialized and Marnitz at CWC.

I was looking for a bike 2 years ago when I started riding and went through all of this before I purchased one.

 

Few things I picked up, may differ for others.

 

It was my first full suspension bike so started from a beginner.

 

I myself ride a 1x (10 speed) 32 front oval and 42 one up rear and it works and worked when I first started for all the local Mtb rides including 70+ km marathon events which were my first too.

 

I changed a family member back to a 2x 10 due to the lack of gears when riding their Mtb on road. They couldn't keep up with the others and kept spinning out down hills. In that case 2x 10 was perfect.

 

I have had a medium and large frame (moved up a size) and you get Topeak spacers or I made my own to lower the bottle cage mount so I could fit a 750l bottle in. Keep in mind a dropper post (nice for trail and xc too at least I have found) will not play too nice with a bottle mounted to it or to the seat. I use a camelbak 2 litre if need be or run a cable tie second cage on my top tube.

 

Trail or Xc this for me was a huge decision. Depending on the riding i have 140mm of travel front and rear which works for Dh stuff in Tokai and for those long xc up hill races. Tyre choice can change the bike a lot. For trail I run a more aggressive setup and for marathons a faster rolling lighter setup. Works really well! Keeping in mind a don't race for top positions (I would then get a more xc orientated bike) and I'm getting better at going faster downhill but don't do massive 2m drops and jumps either. So depends what is more important. I went for slightly more trail than xc but manage just fine doing races.

 

Good value is key once he knows what he wants to ride. Great tyre choices for wider width rims for trail use. I upgraded to XT brakes which made me faster knowing I could rely on them. Slx crankset has been good and shadow + rear derailleur is great don't drop chains ever and don't need a chain guide. Dropper post adds weight but made the most difference. XT shifter has been way better than the stock deore one for me.

 

Biggest thing is what the bike will be used for I think. If I wanted to race marathons up front and speed around 90 percent of the time I would get a bit irritated with my current bike. On the other hand if I wanted to ride what i do now and had a more xc orientated bike holding me back that wouldn't be great either. Always a slight compromise if looking for both I would think.

 

Anyways long comment but that's just what I have learnt along the way. My opinion only others will differ. Good luck

[SeanGrey]

Add: reading the fact he does multiday stage races and such obv leaning more towards XC than I was. Should then look at in my opinion aggressive xc sort of bike. Comfort/riding type will sort the rest out. Know it's not about brand and didn't mention my bike for that reason. But when I ended up with a giant trance perhaps if i was doing those races I would have gone for an Anthem if shopping at the same store. Each brand has bikes for xc/trail/gravity and so on so should just shop around and test ride a lot.

[ChrisF]

Thanks Sean

 

I will pass on the information to him

 

 

Will also look at the attachment to lower my bottle holder.

 

 

We did stop at a few bike shops, and looked at various options.  Seems the better equipment now only comes in 1x setups.

[SeanGrey]

Thanks Sean

 

I will pass on the information to him

 

 

Will also look at the attachment to lower my bottle holder.

 

 

We did stop at a few bike shops, and looked at various options.  Seems the better equipment now only comes in 1x setups.

Good luck with it! 1x 11 is cool then he will be sorted for gears. I had a 2x 10 changed it to 1x 10 and working well for me. 32 up front and a 42 one up rear. Cheers 

[Dicky DQ]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the notes. 

You mention a couple of interesting points.

 

The triangle is a fixed measure, but there is always the option of putting a small bottle under the saddle/on seat post that could give you more carry capacity.

 

Where the shock sits doesn't matter.  It's about the linkage and suspension design as a whole that defines the characteristic, so look at it as a whole.

 

For the rest of your considerations such as XC vs Trail and 1x vs 2x I would direct the discussion more towards what is the bike going to be used for 80% of the time.  When you know that then you can make a much better choice.

 

Hope this give a bit clarity.

 

Ride safe,

CB

Hmm, Triangle is brand specific and re the horizontal or vertical shock......... well where have you been? this is one of the most polarizing issues with MTB today.

[ChrisF]

Hmm, Triangle is brand specific and re the horizontal or vertical shock......... well where have you been? this is one of the most polarizing issues with MTB today.

 

Hehehe ....

 

YES, I have picked up some "vibes" as to the shock orientation ....

 

 

Looking at Canondale during the week - two models next to each other and the usable space in the triangle is TOTALLY different !  Think it was the Scalpel vs the Rush .... both horizontal mount shocks, just the geometry that makes the one SO much more usable/practical than the other.

[Calculus Bikes]

Hmm, Triangle is brand specific and re the horizontal or vertical shock......... well where have you been? this is one of the most polarizing issues with MTB today.

 

Mr D.

 

The point I am making regarding the shock position is that it is a very simplistic view to only consider shock position.

 

The bike handling is defined by the whole suspension design: Bar and linkage length, positioning, stroke, the balance of weight, inertia of fixed components and so forth.

 

Thus my suggestion was to not only decide on what bike you want based on the shock position as you might exclude a bike/design that could actually work very well for the rider in question.

 

Hope the clarification helps.

 

Regards

CB