morrgreg Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Took the plunge a couple of weeks ago and bought the first set, or so I was told, of tubeless road wheels in SA. They are Shimano Dura Ace Wheels with Ti Hub and Skandium Rims. The Tyres were specifically developed together with Shimano by Hutchinson. They have a thicker sidewall than standard Clinchers yet weigh less than a standard tyre tube combination. The wheelset weighs in at 1500grams. The theorertical benefits of the setup are:1 1. Puncture resistance ala MTB tubeless (although you can use a tube if the tyre is slashed); 2. Lower rolling resistance similar to tubbies due to the lack of frictional kickback between the tube and tyre that a conventional clincher experiences; 3. Better comfort due to lower working pressures without the risk of pinch flat or tyre rolling off rim. My first ride was at 7bar. Although one can ride as low s 5,5bar (depending on your body weight). My brain would not allow me to ride at such low pressures. Impressions relative to claims: 1. Puncture resistance - so far so good. Although I haven't done much milleage yet to really comment; 2. Noticeable improvement in rolling resistance. Similar feel to a tubby. Fantastic; 3. Comfort at 7 bar was brilliant. My next ride will be at 6 bar. I am hoping that it smooths out those rough Cradle surfaces. In summary, tubed road tyres are dead. If you are in the market for a new set of training wheels - and I hazzard, racing wheels. These are awesome.
GIRR Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 I rode with someone who had tubeless dura-ace wheels about three months ago, so I wouldn't say you have some of the first in the country... He also said pretty much what you have with your impression of them. I'm still just to scared of riding tubless on the road for now, but love it on my mtb.
swift Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 You mean you bought a set of those instead of these: http://www.corima.com/gb/produits/roues/default.cfm?family=roues_aeroplusTub
oclv110 Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 What will a set of these set you back, for the wheels and tyres and do you put stan's or no tubes in?
AndreZA Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Maybe what he meant was that DA wheels are the first tubeless road wheels in the country, not that his are the first in the country. Linden had a pair with tyres on special for about R6500 for quite a few months already.
swift Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 What will a set of these set you back' date=' for the wheels and tyres and do you put stan's or no tubes in?[/quote'] Corima Aero+ Tubeless - RRP is R23 361 (incl. vat) *First full carbon tubeless road wheel in the world *First deep section tubeless road wheel in the world Price includes: Wheels (of course), wheel bags, corima brake pads, tubeless valves, Hutchinson Fusion II Tyres, skewers, and spaces for free wheel body. According to Corima, you don't use rim tape nor do you need slime or any stuff in the tyres. They just ride them as is. Easy to get on the rim. The guys overseas are loving the tubeless road stuff. Most of them train on them with normal tyres and tubes, then race on the tubeless, quite smart! If you should puncture, you get a patch repair kit with the tyres as well so you can use that, but if all else fails you throw a normal tube in and off you go... Welcome to the tubeless road revolution hubbers
morrgreg Posted August 26, 2008 Author Posted August 26, 2008 As regards the wheels being the first. I did qualify the statement. Shimano SA told Dunkeld cycles that it was the first set they had sold. The wheels were R8,5k. As regards the slime used, it is s Hutchinson specific type. Those Corima's look nice. The key for me with the Dura Ace wheels is that the technology was developed jointly by Shimano and Hutchinson. I agree that the tubeless revolution is upon us. All the manufacturers are working on designs.
Mervin Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 I've got the same combination. I have had no problems with them thus far and found that manufacturers claims held true. I've riding with them as training wheels for about 3 months now. Pros - for me are the quality of the hubs, these are superb. Cons - the Dura-Ace wheels have a bit of flex.
morrgreg Posted August 26, 2008 Author Posted August 26, 2008 Mervin, do you have the 7800 or 7850 version. I believe the 7850 is a lot stiffer.
Mervin Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 I've most probably got the 7800, not sure will have to check.
EugeneP Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Would it be possible to build a powertap hub into the back wheel?
Korbach Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 On the tyre side, with tubeless road tyres, what you're experiencing is subjective (ie new technology so it must be good). Not so. The real facts: Tubeless vs tube tyre: Rolling resistance in % : The lower the figure the better: Hutchinson Fusion Tubeless. TL 23-622 0.48Continental G.Prix 24-622 0.40Continental Gp4000 Tubular 28 x mm 0.38Michelin ProRace 3 23-622 0.35Vittoria Open Corsa Evo KS 23-622 0.31Continental GP4000S 23-622 0.28 Pinch flat resistance: The higher the better. Measurements in DaN Continental G.Prix 4000 Tubular 96Continental G.Prix 4000S 88Continental G.Prix 58Michelin Pro Race 3 55Hutchinson Fusion Tubeless 50Vittoria Open Corsa 47 Weight in g. The lower the better: Michelin Pro Race 3 202Continental G.Prix 4000S 209Continental G.Prix 232Vittoria Open Corsa 238Continental GP4000 Tubular 273Hutchinson Fusion Tubeless 304 A good quality light butyl tube would add around 75g in weight to the above (excepting obviously the tubular tyre). These figures would explain the lack of enthusiasm by most major manufacturers into releasing tubeless road tyres against Hutchinson's brave entry. Their Fusion tyres may prove to be a good bet as the technology improves, but right now there is no earth shaking feed-back from any top level competitor utilising the products. Tubeless tyres do puncture. What then? Carry a tube as spare? Back to square one. A tubeless tyre being converted to tube type.In MTB, tubeless make sense where low pressures are often needed. Who needs low pressures in narrow clinchers on tar roads? That's asking for handling problems in high speed bends and on fast long descents. Most premium grade manufacturers have reportedly got tubeless tyres in waiting (just in case), but the rush to market them is singularly unenthusiastic. Hutchinson are to be commended for taking the first brave leap into the unkown.
swift Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 On the tyre side' date=' with tubeless road tyres, what you're experiencing is subjective (ie new technology so it must be good). Not so. ?The real facts: ? Tubeless vs tube tyre:? ? Rolling resistance in % :? The lower the figure the better: ? Hutchinson Fusion Tubeless. TL 23-622? 0.48 Continental G.Prix 24-622 0.40 Continental Gp4000?Tubular 28 x mm 0.38 Michelin ProRace 3 ??23-622 ??0.35 Vittoria Open Corsa?Evo KS ? 23-622 ??0.31 Continental GP4000S 23-622 ? 0.28 ? Pinch flat resistance: The higher the better. Measurements in DaN ? Continental G.Prix 4000 Tubular 96 Continental G.Prix 4000S 88 Continental G.Prix 58 Michelin Pro Race 3 55 Hutchinson Fusion Tubeless 50 Vittoria Open Corsa ?? 47 ? Weight in g.? The lower the better: ? Michelin Pro Race 3 202 Continental G.Prix 4000S 209 Continental G.Prix 232 Vittoria Open Corsa ? 238 Continental GP4000 Tubular ?? 273 Hutchinson Fusion Tubeless 304 ? A good quality light butyl tube would add around 75g in weight? to the above (excepting obviously the tubular tyre). ? These figures would explain the lack of enthusiasm by most major manufacturers into releasing?tubeless road tyres?against Hutchinson's brave entry. Their Fusion tyres may prove to be a good bet as the technology improves, but right now there is no earth shaking feed-back from any top level competitor utilising the products.? ? Tubeless tyres do puncture. What then? Carry a tube as spare? Back to square one. A tubeless tyre being converted to tube type. In MTB, tubeless make sense where low pressures are often needed. Who needs low pressures in narrow clinchers on tar roads? That's asking for handling problems in high speed bends and on fast long descents. ? Most premium grade manufacturers have reportedly got tubeless tyres in waiting (just in case), but the rush to market them is singularly unenthusiastic.?Hutchinson are to be commended for taking the first brave leap into the unkown. ? ?[/quote'] Interesting stuff... thanks! How is it possible though, to have more chance of a pinch flat than some normal clincher tyres, when there is no tyre to pinch? Where did you find this info btw?
GIRR Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Thanks for the info Korbach. I'm also curious of swift's question on the pinch flats, the info doesn't make sense to me.I also thought one of the reasons for having tubless road tyres is you can put sealant in them that works better than sealant in tubes, aswell as lower weight. Similar reasons to having tubeless for mtb(except lower tyre pressure). The conti gp 4000's scored rather well by the looks of things.GIRR2008-08-29 07:23:02
Korbach Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 The test results are doing the rounds in Europe. Apparently done at the Continental test facility where the equipment for such tests exists. No doubt the tests are being conducted by all major manufacturers which would be normal in any new tech advance.Cannot say why the snake-bite results in tubeless tyres were so low. Possibly the fact that the pinch impact of the tyre casing against the wheel rim crotchets is cushioned by a thinner layer of sealing rubber in the t/less tyre that the thickness of the standard inner tube used in standard tyres.
Serendipity Posted September 1, 2008 Posted September 1, 2008 Continental tyres doing best in a test run by them at their lab? He who pays the piper picks the tune.
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