Fox Sued for negligence

[porky]

I have been waiting for Johan Bornman to join this thread.  Some time ago he advocated removing the useless lawyers lips from forks on Supercycling.

He advocated this because it stops quick releases releasing quickly.  After removing a few sets of lips in the household I started reading on the net on this subject directly after doing the deed.  I had my regrets after reading about the described problem.  We were mostly on v-brakes at the time.   I would not remove the lips from forks used with disk brakes and personally I would not promote its removal on national TV.

 

I dont watch SC that much so I didnt see it, but surely removing those "lawyers lips" could be dangerous, I mean I tend to believe, rightly or wrongly, manufacturers do a lot more testing and R&D than us mortals, and if they felt there was a need for it, we should just leave alone.?

 

Now lets step back and "assume" this fella did remove those tags, he would have no legal case, and would be sitting in a wheel chair relient on his mother for the rest of his life, - not a pleasant thought.!

 

The fact that he "didnt" modify anything means that (in his opinion anyway) somewhere there is a latent defect, he suffered because of its effect and he can sue for compensation.

 

Personally I hope he wins.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I have been waiting for Johan Bornman to join this thread.  Some time ago he advocated removing the useless lawyers lips from forks on Supercycling.

He advocated this because it stops quick releases releasing quickly.  After removing a few sets of lips in the household I started reading on the net on this subject directly after doing the deed.  I had my regrets after reading about the described problem.  We were mostly on v-brakes at the time.   I would not remove the lips from forks used with disk brakes and personally I would not promote its removal on national TV.

 

they do this on road bikes in big races, to facilitate quick changes. not advisable if there's a chance of getting airborne, i'd imagine.

[Retrorider]

• "The introduction of disc brakes

  has caused increased vulnerability of the front axle and skewer, due to

  the disc brake applying an ejection force that tends to pull the axle

  out of the fork.

   

  See James Annan's article on disk brake wheel ejection. " (Sheldon Brown)

 

 

 http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/index.html

 

Very interesting article. Do not remove the tabs if you intent using disc brakes.  Johan was wrong on this one.

 

 

 

[linnega]

JB did show a road bike in that particular episode but did not specifically mention MTB's with discs.  The following week he categorically stated that his recommendation for removing the lawyers lips should bot be done on bikes with disc brakes.

[Retrorider]

 

JB did show a road bike in that particular episode but did not specifically mention MTB's with discs.  The following week he categorically stated that his recommendation for removing the lawyers lips should bot be done on bikes with disc brakes.

 

That is not how I remember it.  What do you base this on? 

 

[Johan Bornman]

I did, and indeed still do, advocate the removal of lawyer's lips (aka retention tags) on bikes without disc brakes.

 

At the time of that particualr Supercycling series I had a website repeating and expanding on the detail spoken about and shown on Supercycling. I mentioned that the particular operation is only good for V-brake and calliper brake bikes and backed this up on the website.

 

I've resurrected that particular article and it is now available here http://www.yellowsaddle.co.za/Lawyers%20Lips.html

 

It explains the forces acting on a wheel when braking with disc brakes.

 

At the time I took a lot of flak from people over the recommendation. It appears that most of them didn't read up on it.

 

The position is as follows.

 

Lawyer's lips are a pain. They dumb-down the use of a quick release and in my view increase the danger of mishap. The reason for this last statement is that each time you fit your front wheel (with tabs) you have to re-position the QR nuts. Most people dont have a clue how to do this and stand a chance of doing it wrong each time they fit a front wheel.

 

Forks without lawyers lips are perfectly safe. There is no ejection force on non-disc brake bikes.

 

Quick Release skewers are not for the stupid - they deserve track nuts.

 

Everybody should re-think their puny aftermarket QRs. Have a look at what Shimano and Campagnolo supplies with their wheels and ask yourself why.

 

A QR can only eject a disc-braked wheel (without tabs) if the wheel is rarely taken off the bike. The ejection is piecemeal and accumulative. Most peole remove their wheel from time to time and re-position it each time.

 

Just one more reason why V-brakes still make sense - you can remove your wheel quickly and without fuss.

 

[linnega]

 

JB did show a road bike in that particular episode but did not specifically mention MTB's with discs.  The following week he categorically stated that his recommendation for removing the lawyers lips should bot be done on bikes with disc brakes.

 

That is not how I remember it.  What do you base this on? 

Memory

 

[Yang]

A rider from Bornholm Cycling Club in Denmark was riding his MTB down a hill one day when he looked down at his front hub and thought "hmmm- I wonder if I tightened my QR". He decided to test it the hard way- by pulling up his handlebar, and found out, the hard way, that he should not have done that. This Viking wasn't that tough- he wasn't able to get onto his bike for months afterwards.

 

OK, this is a hearsay story but from a reliable source- a guy called Yannik who was riding with this individual at the time and witnessed it.

 

Its entirely possible that this is what happened in this case. Or not? 

[Azonic]

I was driving behind a fellow PE cyclist with a car many years ago. At about 55km/h, you could see him looking down at the front wheel, clearly concerned that something wasn't right. And he did the same thing the dude in Yang's story did, yank up on the bars. It wasn't a pretty sight. I ran over to him and walked away when I saw him, and I think I said aloud, he's dead. Luckily not dead, but incredibly banged up. Another rider had to pry his mouth open with a tyre lever to stop him from biting his tongue off. I think if he's fork had the safety tabs on, the wheel might not have come out.

 

Anyway, the dude suing Fox. That's bullsh1t. I'm sorry, but wheels don't just pop out unless you did a real sh1tty job at fitting the wheel and locking the QR. Fox (or any OEM), wouldn't spec their forks with disc tabs if it wasn't safe. My one fork is a 1999 Judy SL and I think was one of the first forks to be fitted with disc brakes. I've never had a wheel come out. Technology has moved on allot, and disc tab placement etc could only have got better. Sorry plaintiff, you got a raw deal but I rate it was your own doing.