What is ROAG

[GTfan]

hmm...

 

I wonder who was the Mavericks guy who drove out in a huff at the Juicy Lucy classic because there was a delay in starting the race ?

 

(delay caused by ROAG handing out free timing chips to every competitor' date=' theirs to keep and use for timing at every roag organized race .)  

 

Dude, who ever you and your buddy were, bad form I thought. ( the comments around me told me most others thought the same)  Nobody else was unduly stressed. Wouldnt have been fun for the stragglers if they had started the race with guys still trying to get their timing chips loaded and sorted.

 

GMan1834, personally i still believe its best to belong to a cycling/mtb club. let roag organize the races and let clubs do their thing.

[/quote']

 

Yes, and now that everyone from the Juicy Lucy have their timing chips and ROAG number boards, it's all plane sailing for the future races

[Wobbles]

Hi Everyone!!

 

Sorry my computer has been down for a while, I have missed u guys so much!!!

 

Well done to TimW on winning the debate. Democracy is great where we can express ourselves freely but it would be even nicer if it was conducted in a civilised way. I am saddened to see posts where members have to resort to gutter language to express themselves in an open forum like this but then I guess they have had limited education and their eloquence exceeds their intelligence by some way.

 

I was expressing some comments received from members and these are not necessarily my own feelings, I was defending them and I have been and will be very wary of virtual clubs in golf who I consider parasites.

 

Will ROAG be good for MTB? We will have to wait and see.

 

Speaking of Juicy Lucy, here is a comment from one of our members:-

"I did the Juicy Luicy on Sunday and it was so chaotic with riders having to register with ROAG that the main event started 1.5hrs later than advertised so instead of  9.00am it started @ 10.30am and the 18km started at 10.50am instead of 9.30am. One started off in batches where they stated you were seeded according to your riding abilities or alphabetical order of your surname!!! This was a joke because you had beginners and little kids starting in the A batch of the 18km and how can they possibly seed you when you have pre-entered for the 1^st time on line with ROAG without knowing your abilities so what hog wash statement is that anyway. They were publicly announcing that they are planning to get involved in more events and stating one must be ROAG registered to get a result."<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

To show that other clubs are also concerned, here is an extract from the Maverick newsletter:-

 

http://maverickcycles.createsend1.com/ti/27B8E944/header.gif

24   April   2009

http://maverickcycles.createsend1.com/ti/27B8E944/spacer.gif

What's happening? KZN 23-27 April 2009  Event Feedback I have a gripe. I am saddened to see published articles threatening participants in MTB races. I am talking about ROAG and their threat to MTB riders that unless you register with ROAG, you will not get a time or a result. Please note, this is NOT applicable to Super Classics or any non-ROAG event - like ours. This threat goes against everything we as SA-MTB and KZN MBC have ever done over the past 5 years. What the committee has done was create an environment of participation and called on riders to license. Why is licensing required? 1. It forms the basis of revenue collection to keep our sport moving forward (just think of the recent World Cup) 2. It allows us to communicate with you the rider. None of this would be possible if the sport was run by independent individuals who are not prepared to share information.   NB - licenses are required (if you have applied, your details will on the database so you are fine) There are severe problems in license card delivery - nationwide - but it is being addressed by Cycling SA)

*************************************8

 

Beeing an extremely active club, which a lot of posters overlooked as you don't become one of the biggest clubs in KZN if you do nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!, we have been in contact with MTB KZN and Brett Austen Smith, one of the founders of ROAG.

 

MTBKZN have responded as follows:-

 

Yes, ROAG has created quite a stir amongst all involved in MTB and rumours have been doing the rounds.

 

Firstly - ROAG CLUB and the ROAG administration system are two different issues.

 

Club ROAG - is a virtual club formed mainly to allow riders who don't want anything from a club other than a conduit to obtaining a license - Riders who expect something in return from their choice of club will join a club who offers their requirements, like club rides, social evenings etc....

 

ROAG Administration System - is ultimately just a means to an end.  The aim of this system is to accumulate as many rider names as possible to facilitate accurate data at events and thereby ensure that timing and results are correct and this is the reason why the event directors of the three biggest events in KZN got together to implement the system.  Ultimately this system is an on-line system, like cyclelab or entry time, whereby the rider wanting to enter an event on-line would need to first register their personal information (at initial log-on) and thereafter enter events as and when needed without having to input the same information over and over again - this on-line system has moved one step further and created an environment where organizers can hire their services to run the registration process in total and then hand over the race entry information to the timing people - along with this these organizers have involved and obtained sponsored from Mr Price with regards to timing chips - these are Mr Price Timing chips and will only be used by organizers who wish to employ Mr Price Timing to time their events. 

 

KZNMTB did have reservations and a many meetings have been held with the key players to ensure that things are done fairly and change a few things, especially the strong wording in various articles and on their website.  At the end of the day - they are supplying a service to the industry and it is up to organizers whether they want to use this administration system or not.  Riders also have the choice to either take part in the event or not.

 

Hope that clears up a few things for you.

 

Cheers

Dellah

We have arranged a meeting with Brett early next month to discuss our concerns with ROAG. As I said earlier, the lack of communication, is one of the biggest problems we have these days and I feel strongly that CSA, MTBKZN amd ROAG should have communicated with the clubs BEFORE they were launched!!

 

Have a good day and see you on the Road!!

Wobbles2009-04-29 23:10:53

[EigerSA]

I did the Juicy Lucy and although everything was late, and a little chaotic, I was happy to wait a while since I now have a number board and timing chip. I don't see what all the complaining is about? We don't pay anything to ROAG, it's completely free, and for our trouble, free chip and number in order to make future registrations easier. I agree with the ROAG policy of forcing people to register with them in order to ride their event since it will just speed it up in future; it's a good thing people! And the idiot who complained about the 18km "seeding" maybe should've shut his mouth for two seconds and LISTENED when a minute before the race it was explained by the organisers that the seeding was purely a case of when you registered, nothing to do with ability since was also part of the family/fun race. Seriously, no one is demanding money and it will speed up the queues, move on people!

[GTfan]

I did the Juicy Lucy and although everything was late' date=' and a little chaotic, I was happy to wait a while since I now have a number board and timing chip. I don't see what all the complaining is about? We don't pay anything to ROAG, it's completely free, and for our trouble, free chip and number in order to make future registrations easier. I agree with the ROAG policy of forcing people to register with them in order to ride their event since it will just speed it up in future; it's a good thing people! And the idiot who complained about the 18km "seeding" maybe should've shut his mouth for two seconds and LISTENED when a minute before the race it was explained by the organisers that the seeding was purely a case of when you registered, nothing to do with ability since was also part of the family/fun race. Seriously, no one is demanding money and it will speed up the queues, move on people![/quote']

[riaanb]

I came across ROAG last week for the first time when I was looking to enter for Karkloof. I registered in 3 minutes, no hassle. I then read through their stuff and saw Club Roag. What a win!

 

I won't go into all the factors already mentioned, just to say that I agree completely that clubs that add value will retain all the members that make use of their services and those clubs that don't will lose the members merely using them to get licensed - like me.

 

What I don't get is the golf club argument. I am a member of one of the bigger golf clubs in Joburg and I pay 10-15x more than it would cost me to be a member of a cycling club, but I use the club and its facilities extensively. If I only wanted to be handicapped I would join a vitual club, but then I would struggle to get a game on weekends or have to play far from home etc.

 

The virtual clubs have their place and the actual clubs (Gardener Ross, Eagle Canyon, Pebble Rock...) make substantial use of them to suplement their membership base while they are establishing themselves. No course should feel threatened by a virtual club, because you cannot play golf on a virtual course -  Only Monks Cowl and Port St Jonhs (for example) where many people join for the handicap alone and have never been to the club.

 

The point is:

 

If you want a hadicap only  - join a vitual club.

If you want to play golf regularly and have access to the facilities - join a club.

 

Similarly:

If you only want to be licensed  - join a virtual cycling club like ROAG

If you want to participate in club rides, have support on training rides and races, participate in teams - join a decent cycling club.

 

Each has their place.

 

 

 

 

 

[TimW]

 

 

Will ROAG be good for MTB? We will have to wait and see.

 

Speaking of Juicy Lucy' date=' here is a comment from one of our members:-

"I did the Juicy Luicy on Sunday and it was so chaotic with riders having to register with ROAG that the main event started 1.5hrs later than advertised so instead of  9.00am it started @ 10.30am and the 18km started at 10.50am instead of 9.30am. One started off in batches where they stated you were seeded according to your riding abilities or alphabetical order of your surname!!! This was a joke because you had beginners and little kids starting in the A batch of the 18km and how can they possibly seed you when you have pre-entered for the 1^st time on line with ROAG without knowing your abilities so what hog wash statement is that anyway. They were publicly announcing that they are planning to get involved in more events and stating one must be ROAG registered to get a result."<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[/quote']

 

First up, at ROAG we are all in agreement that the Juicy Lucy was a disaster. I will not go into the reasons other than we accept that we messed up and apologise to everybody who was inconvenienced.

 

We thought of offering everybody a refund on their ROAG registration but it is free so we could not, so then thought about a refund of what they paid for the chip and number board, and, well, the answer was the same. The good news is that everybody who stood in that disastrous queue now has a chip and number board.

 

Seriously, there are no excuses and we are genuinely sorry for your time which we wasted by not being as efficient as we should have been.

 

As far as the seeding was concerned. The 18km is considered to be something of a fun ride and so was not seeded as such. I know it was announced that seeding was based on alphabetical order, but that was something of a misnomer and I think the batching was done by oder of entry. Whatever, it was not a ROAG issue and ROAG seeding was not used.

 

 

[Stretch]

My opinion from those around me, that there was not much distress about the wait/delay. I suppose some will always be put off by such, and I guess it is the same people you see waving their hands about frantically in traffic!

 

 

 

All I really now is that, come Karkloof, I have a board and chip

[GTfan]

My opinion from those around me' date=' that there was not much distress about the wait/delay. I suppose some will always be put off by such, and I guess it is the same people you see waving their hands about frantically in traffic!

All I really now is that, come Karkloof, I have a board and chip[/quote']

 

That's the spirit Stretch, can't wait for Karkloof

[Wobbles]

Another comment received:-

 

"With all the negative talk about ROAG I thought I would like to share with you a commemt I forwarded to their web-site. I also believe that they should show it as an additional charge to every entry on the entry form and not make on-line entries suffer.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

There seems to be a lot of negativity regarding ROAG however I believe that we need to give it a chance before we condemn. I have two comments. Being a pensioner I need to watch the pennies and object to the 7.5% bank charge. It is illegal for a vendor to recover the credit card charge from its client. Check it out! Secondly I do not think it is a good idea to hand out lucky prizes through the refreshment stations as those (like me) who do not stop or drink from these are automatically eliminated from participation. Good luck and make it work but not at the expense of the rider - rather the sponsor."

Good luck with the Karkloof, ROAG - this will be a real test of your admin procedures!!! I sincerely hope there will be no long registration queus as all the glitches should have been ironed out by now? 

[BrettAS]

Hello Wobbles, i am one of the ROAG guys.

Firstly, thanks for your encouragement for Karkloof. Yes we do have a major task ahead of us this weekend, but hopefully we have learned our lessons and will be well prepared for the masses. All we ask is that everybody brings their sense of humour and brains. Its easeir to process people when they are concentrating on the task at hand. We will have an express queue for those who already have a ROAG board and timing chip. So watch out for the quick option.

Secondly, ROAG is in NO way involved in the entry fees for Karkloof. This was negotiated directly between the service provider and the Karkloof managment team. ROAG is only involved in the entry process in respect of providing data so you dont have to fill in all that info more than once.

 

The lucky draw issue is a complex one. Whats better - to hand out lucky draws immediately you finish, or to wait around for ages until prize giving (in this case in the rain) and wait while the announcer calls out loads of names of people who have already gone home so you can win a cap? i dont have the answer.

 

Anyway - see you at Karkloof. if you have a spare moment there, I would love to meet you. I will be the frantic guy with the ROAG cap!

[Wobbles]

Many thanks Brett for your quick and informative response. I wont be at Karkloof unfortunately as I find it too crowded on the 45km and I am not strong enough for the 75km. I prefer the Eston and Baynesfield rides with less riders!! I get tense when too many guys are breathing down my neck on single track!!

 

Here is a response from the guy who I quouted in my last post:

 

"Thanks for YOUR quick response.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Kindly pass my apologies on to ROAG regarding the extra charge for on-line entries. I still fail to see why it is not shown on the entry form. I understand now that it has nothing to do with ROAG.

As far as the prizes are concerned, my point was that many riders are excluded as they do not stop at the refreshment stations. It is quite easy to put a sticker onto the back of medals. There is no waiting for numbers to be called out. Many races do this.

My Juicy Lucy was good with only one crash next to the dam into the cows**t. Most enjoyable.

Had my first (and last, I hope ) Road crash at the Tour Durban yesterday. Body and Bike a bit wrecked. Saw a white flash and opened my eyes with a very sore bum and kissing the tarmac.Could not finish as derailleur(is that the correct spelling?) ended up in the spokes. Still very tender today but no broken bones. All my own fault and I was on time for a P.B. at 80km. My co-rider finished in 3.16 so that would have been my time or thereabouts.

Hope to see you at the Karkloof if the body mends in time."

[BrettAS]

Thanks Wobbles. see you on the bike soemtime.

[Wobbles]

A report back. We had a meeting with Brett where we sorted out all our differences and misconceptions. In fact, we now fully support ROAG and appreciate what they are doing for cycling and will probably use them in our future races. It pays to communicate face to face!!