Breaking spokes all the time??

[Jules]

I?HAVE ALSO BEEN TOLD TO STAY OFF CARBON DUE TO MY WEIGHT (98KG'S).?

 

?

 

I WAS ALSO TOLD BY THE MAVIC REP THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE A MTB WHEELSET THAT COULD CARRY MY WEIGHT!

 

?

 

 

 

MY LBS FITTED A LITTLE BRASS BUSH BETWEEN MY SPOKES AND THE HUB SO AS TO APPARENTLY PROVIDE A BUFFER AT A CRITICAL STRESS POINT.

 

?

 

WAY TOO HIGHER GRADE FOR ME BUT IT WORKED BRILLIANTLY' date=' HAVENT BROKEN A SPOKE IN AGES!

[/quote']

 

 

 

The guy at Dunkeld Cycles was explaining the same procedure to me. According to him, the holes in the hub can wear out, causing them to pinch the spoke and break it. The tiny brass washers prevent this, he told me.

[Johan Bornman]

The guy at Dunkeld Cycles was explaining the same procedure to me. According to him' date=' the holes in the hub can wear out, causing them to pinch the spoke and break it. The tiny brass washers prevent this, he told me. [/quote']

 

There is no wear at the hub holes. There is no movement there, therefore no friction and no wear. There certainly is no pinching. He's confusing wheels with the back row of the movies.

 

Besides, the plastic deformation that the hub undergoes during the stress relieving phase of the build is to be encouraged, not prevented through the use of hard brass washers.

 

The spokes want as gentle a bend as possible, with maximum contact with the spoke hole. A brass washer on the outbound side prevents this and will almost certainly cause more metal fatigue than not.

 

Brass washers are sometimes used on the inbound side behind the spoke head, to compensate from hubs with too thin flanges or the batch of defective DT Swiss spokes sent into the world in the 1990s (and still circulating) that had extra long elbows.

 

 

[MarkU]

Hi Johan

 

Is there any way to back out of this topic without getting hurt??

 

Before i run away, can you recommend a wheel set for my MTB, good quality that wont flatten my wallet completely? I weigh 98kgs.

 

This considering that Mavic dont cater for anyone over 90kg's.

[Johan Bornman]

Hi Johan

 

Is there any way to back out of this topic without getting hurt??

 

Before i run away' date=' can you recommend a wheel set for my MTB, good quality that wont flatten my wallet completely? I weigh 98kgs.

 

This considering that Mavic dont cater for anyone over 90kg's.

[/quote']

 

No malice intended. I just wanted to point out that cause and effect as bandied about in bicycle mythology are not always connected.

 

 

You need a set of hand-built wheels. These should be not cost the earth. I suggest you build them on 36-hole Shimano hubs - consider SLX or XT, depending on your budget and local availability. Then, get a good solid rim like a DRC ST-17 ir DRC DH-18. Don't worry about the fact that the rim will/may have a machined braking surface and you have disc brakes.

 

Then, use standard double-butted spokes, 3X and a wheelbuilder that understands the concept of stress relieving. If you wan to get fancy, play with the spoke and nipple colours but stay away from the lighest.

 

If you follow this recipe, the builder should gaurantee no more spoke breakages and  wobbles. You'll also find the cost surprisingly affordable and value for money.

 

These wheels are not particularly fast looking, pretty or bleeding edge. They will score you no coffee-shop points. However, you will fit them and forget about them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bionic man]

My 2 cents, I was just over 100kg when I bought my carbon bike, Dura Ace tubless clinchers, no breakages 1 year later (mid 80kgs now). Same with my MTB wheelset, ZTR Olympics which I bought when I was 97kg, also no breakages. If the items are built by guys who know what is what you shouldnt have a problem.

[dollar]

My cent.

 

I have varied in weight between 100 and 93kg's over 20 years on a bike. Only use wheels like JB is referring to. Only had a problem once - an old Mavic G40 developed a bit of a wobble that I did not fix and it went pear on me one morning. Had I paid attention it would not have happened.

[Guest Big H]

Just like fat people should not expect to squeeze into haut couture' date=' so big okes should not ride boutique wheels.

 

They need 36-spoke wheels (or 40-spoke if they are humungous), with heavy rims (500 grams or so) and a good build and stress relieve.

 

Nothing else will work over the long run. It is easy to find a lightweight wheel that is strong enough to handle the person's weight, but they won't be durable.

 

Strong and durable are not the same and are often confused in bicycle terms.

 

 

[/quote']

 

We weigh 200kg as a tandem team and EM is the thin one!!!! ....... we use a 32 spoke Wheels with DRC rims and HiTec wide flange disk hubs on them. The wheels are built in a three cross pattern. Initially we had spokes loosening when I received them from the LBS but since I rebuilt them properly after the ARGUS in 2005 I have not touched them. No spoke breakages or running out of true. We use this wheelset on our MTB Tandem with slicks. We have done many kilometres in Mozambique and Angola on these wheels including two ARGUS races.

 

Not very nice to use discriminating tones against overweight people.

 

I do agree that wheels for Clydesdales should be beefier, but even well built lighter wheels can be durable.

[Johan Bornman]

 

We weigh 200kg as a tandem team and EM is the thin one!!!! ....... we use a 32 spoke Wheels with DRC rims and HiTec wide flange disk hubs on them. The wheels are built in a three cross pattern. Initially we had spokes loosening when I received them from the LBS but since I rebuilt them properly after the ARGUS in 2005 I have not touched them. No spoke breakages or running out of true. We use this wheelset on our MTB Tandem with slicks. We have done many kilometres in Mozambique and Angola on these wheels including two ARGUS races.

 

Not very nice to use discriminating tones against overweight people.

 

I do agree that wheels for Clydesdales should be beefier' date=' but even well built lighter wheels can be durable.

[/quote']

 

Hendrik, I see you are still miffed over the interaction in the religion thread. Get over it. I also see your keyboard still has some sticky keys. I recommend taking it apart and washing the silicone membrane, individual keys and casing with dishwashing soap, drying it properly and reassembling it.

 

Now, I am happy for you with your reliable wheels. Keep on riding. But what are you trying to prove? That 32-spoke wheels are good enough for high-load use over great distances? After the 2005 Argus you've done how many kms on them? You dont say, other than many (more than one) in Moz, many in Angola and 208kms in Cape Town. Even Hyperama wheels can do that.

 

It is a fact that durability decreases as spoke count decreases - so does strength (although even low spoke count wheels are incredibly strong). These are the laws of metallurgy and no number of anecdotes will overthrow them.

 

Metal fatigue is something measured in millions of revolutions and gets to every wheel in the end.  Good build can only go so far, then you have to rely on appropriate materials and components.

 

Anecdotes don't make for good science. You've been here long enough and should know it by now.

 

 

[Guest Big H]

 

We weigh 200kg as a tandem team and EM is the thin one!!!! ....... we use a 32 spoke Wheels with DRC rims and HiTec wide flange disk hubs on them. The wheels are built in a three cross pattern. Initially we had spokes loosening when I received them from the LBS but since I rebuilt them properly after the ARGUS in 2005 I have not touched them. No spoke breakages or running out of true. We use this wheelset on our MTB Tandem with slicks. We have done many kilometres in Mozambique and Angola on these wheels including two ARGUS races.

 

Not very nice to use discriminating tones against overweight people.

 

I do agree that wheels for Clydesdales should be beefier' date=' but even well built lighter wheels can be durable.

[/quote']

 

Hendrik, I see you are still miffed over the interaction in the religion thread. Get over it. I also see your keyboard still has some sticky keys. I recommend taking it apart and washing the silicone membrane, individual keys and casing with dishwashing soap, drying it properly and reassembling it.

 

Now, I am happy for you with your reliable wheels. Keep on riding. But what are you trying to prove? That 32-spoke wheels are good enough for high-load use over great distances? After the 2005 Argus you've done how many kms on them? You dont say, other than many (more than one) in Moz, many in Angola and 208kms in Cape Town. Even Hyperama wheels can do that.

 

It is a fact that durability decreases as spoke count decreases - so does strength (although even low spoke count wheels are incredibly strong). These are the laws of metallurgy and no number of anecdotes will overthrow them.

 

Metal fatigue is something measured in millions of revolutions and gets to every wheel in the end.  Good build can only go so far, then you have to rely on appropriate materials and components.

 

Anecdotes don't make for good science. You've been here long enough and should know it by now.

 

 

 

Just checked my meticulously kept log, those wheels did 3482 km in Mozambique, 521 km in Lagos and 1243 km in Angola. I did lie, they did only one ARGUS that is 112 km and 349 km in training rides in South Africa.

 

The Other Argus was done on my mTB wheels that is 36 spoke Sun Ringle Mammoth rims with DRC Revolver disk hubs and they have done "only 3220km with absolutely no maintenance!!!!!!!!! 

 

Your high engineering mumbo jumbo may be right about stresses and mettalurgy and other thingies and make you a "boffin". Who am I to say you are wrong on that...... it is only my wheelset that says you are wrong!!!!!!!!!.... I am now out of anecdotes.

 

My keyboard may have sticky keys!!!!!!! But that is MY style of writing and even your opinionated acid sarcasm that you liberally apply with a tar brush will not not change my way of writing. At least your have to live with your own self righteous, suurtiet ways. Only my keyboard has to live with mine.

 

On the religious issue, I have no issue with you on that. You choose what you chose and have to live with it and the consequinces.

 

PS..... still NOT cool to use discriminatory tones when talking about overweight people!!!!!!!!!! 

 

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PS²_{?..Fokus op die issues, nie die periphirals nie Johan!!!!!!!!!}

Big H2009-09-25 04:13:11

[Nialls101]

Used to brake spokes all the time when I did sprints on my training wheels. The only way I solved the problem was to get the wheel rebuilt with stronger spokes and had then double butted. No problems since. (done close to 60 000 km's over a few years on this set of wheels)

[ChroMo]

Clydes need wheels that will last. Hand-built wheels are the way to go-the only way-I believe, if you are going to avoid retrueing and rebuilding over and over. This comes from bitter personal experience.

[Johan Bornman]

Used to brake spokes all the time when I did sprints on my training wheels. The only way I solved the problem was to get the wheel rebuilt with stronger spokes and had then double butted. No problems since. (done close to 60 000 km's over a few years on this set of wheels)

 

Used to brake spokes all the time when I did sprints on my training wheels. The only way I solved the problem was to get the wheel rebuilt with stronger spokes and had then double butted. No problems since. (done close to 60 000 km's over a few years on this set of wheels)

 

I don't know what spokes your builder used to replace the once you had, since they only come in one strength - steel strength. They're all made from the same stainless steel and the relative tensile strength is the same across the range, taking spoke diameter into account.

  

And just before someone asks how you get a bike shop to double butt a spoke, note that butting (swaging) is done at the factory.

 

60 000 kms is proof of a good build. Spoke fatigue usually starts after 3000 or 4000 kms, thereafter you're pretty sure that the wheels were built well. 200 000kms is not unusual, provided you have good hubs to start off with and they're serviced often. Also, you need a stock of the same rims since rims don't last that long and you can only transplant rims of exactly the same size.