dalem44 Posted October 26, 2009 Share I have a strange noise coming from my headset, the strange thing is that I only hear it on long rides. It sounds like its shuddering and it is rather irritating. Is this a symptom of headset bearings needing a re-grease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted October 27, 2009 Share Oh yes, the "strange noises" syndrome. Isn't it odd how they always manifest themselves on long rides, when they have the time to really get under your skin? Test ride around the house to diagnose the source - they hide! My headset (Shimano 105) has a tendency to rattle after a while, usually on a longer ride. I've packed the upper and lower bearing sets with heavy grease to stop them moving inside the cups, but I suspect the grease compacts or warms, allowing the movement to start again after a few months. Your symptom sounds as though re-greasing may help. While you've got the whole thing opened up, clean the bearings carefully and then spin then in your fingers, feeling and listening carefully for grinding which may indicate damage. It may be time to replace them (unless they can be serviced). Check out www.parktool.com for more information on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem44 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Thanks for the info, I have since opened up the headset and re greased the completely dry bearings so I imagine that this was the problem. I will be doing a ride later today so I will give some feedback. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted October 27, 2009 Share A shuddering sound from the headset indicates a loose headset. How did it come loose, I hear you say? Headsets are strange beasts. They have ball or roller bearings, both of which don't like to oscillate. They prefer to roll round and round. That way the grease that gets pushed out from between the race and ball, gets recycled and gets to lubricate the bearings. Unfortunately, headsets (and suspension pivots) have ball bearings in an application that's not ideally suited to them. On long roadbike trips our steering stays in one position for a long time, just moving a little bit with our pedal forces. Each time the steering moves a little, it squeezes the grease out of the two contact surfaces and it settles on the side. Eventually you have steel on steel. Now something else comes to play. The fore-aft motion of the fork from fork flex, now fretts the bearings and races and they micro-weld. One or two molecules at a time weld together and then break off with the next movement. And so on and so on. The result is milky opaque dimples on the races underneath the balls. This is the wear you experienced and that causes the headset to go loose. You tighten it and in a few months time, it happens again. Eventually it is so bad you can feel the balls jump from dimple to dimple as you hold the bike by its neck and gently move the steering from side to side. You'll feel smooth, clunk, smooth, clunk, smooth clunk. It was much worse in the bad old days of 1 inch steerers that flexed more than today's stiff steerers. Also, the cartridge bearings we have in our headsets nowadays have a taper on one end that helps eliminate the fretting motion. However, on a badly worn one you can still feel the dimples. As for grease, I bet the grease is still all there, but in the wrong place. Open up, regrease, adjust and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted October 27, 2009 Share ...dimples on the races underneath the balls. quick fix - chamois cream! Eventually it is so bad you can feel the balls jump from dimple todimple as you hold the bike by its neck and gently move the steeringfrom side to side. You'll feel smooth' date=' clunk, smooth, clunk, smoothclunk.[/quote']The mental picture here is making my eyes water! (Sorry Johan - sometimes I can't help myself!!) That's a great explanation.Lotus2009-10-27 06:54:57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem44 Posted October 27, 2009 Share I went for my ride today and the noise is still there after a few km's. If I lift up the front wheel and turn the bars, there is no noise so this makes me wonder if it is the pressure from the bearings on the steerer. Is this possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem44 Posted October 28, 2009 Share I have checked the steerer and there is no play whatsoever so now I am back at square one with this irritating noise. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted October 28, 2009 Share You have to isolate moving parts in order to find the noise. Now that you no longer suspect the headset (although I think you still have to give us a better description plus the state of play when and when not it occurs), why not start suspecting the front wheel bearings. Lift the bike by its neck, bend down and hold your ear against the top tube. Now spin the front wheel and listen for bearing noise. You want a whoosh, not a rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem44 Posted October 28, 2009 Share I have checked the wheel bearings and they are very smooth. Regarding when it happens, It only seems to start the shuddering noise after a couple of km's and its only when I steer. I am almost 100% sure that it is the steerer in the tube. What will be the best remedy for this? take it apart, take the bearings out, clean them and regrease again? Thanks for all the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted October 28, 2009 Share Two things come to mind: You said the bearings were dry when you checked them. Did you check their condition as I suggested earlier (Johan also mentioned this, but his test doesn't require removal). I found my bearings were damaged when I washed them in petrol (sorry to all environmentalists!) and held the inner cage while spinning the outer. I could feel the pitted bearings grinding in there.What kind of headset have you got and how are you tightening it? Mine is a quill which as been modified to look "thread less", so I can use an ordinary stem. If I tighten the centre bolt down too much the steerer binds, making turning stiff.Oh, one more idea. Are the top and bottom bearing sets identical? If not, you may have a bearing set in the wrong size cup, which would have one bearing set squeezed in a cup too small, and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem44 Posted October 28, 2009 Share When I checked the bearings the didn't seem damaged at all, however I will take the whole lot apart again to clean and re-grease them. Is it bad to take it apart too much. I have a WTB momentum comp ST threadless headset. It looks like both bearings are identical and I have never changed them. This problem seems like one that has developed over time. Any ideas on what to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoe Posted October 28, 2009 Share headsets are the biggest rash to work with of all components (except maybe forks) but that I leave to the pro's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted October 28, 2009 Share Thought I'd check and see if anyone else has issues with this headset. Not good news, reading some of these reviews. Some people have problems with the bottom cups. However, it might give you some clues where to look for the problem. http://www.mtbr.com/cat/controls/Headset/wtb/momentum/PRD_352022_124crx.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem44 Posted October 29, 2009 Share I checked the headset and it is not the same as the one on the link you provided. Considering that I have had the headset for 3 years, it hasn't been bad. To me, the headset is still ok but will have to look into sorting the problem out before it gets more damaged. (if it is damaging internals) Any things I should look out for with regards to steerer wear and such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted October 29, 2009 Share That's why I though the article might give some clues - even if it's a different type the principles are similar. One user complained that the headset had caused his frame's steerer tube to go "out of round". That's something you need to check by careful measurement. "Eyeballing" it probably won't show a problem. Other users mentioned cracks in the lower cup - you'd probably have noticed that, but worth having another look. Lotus2009-10-29 03:26:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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