29ers...here to stay or fade away?

[Kiwi]

For those that want to find out for themselves, here's a couple of deals to convert an existing 26er over to 29er; the packages consists of frame, forks, headset and wheels. Just swap over your components:

 

Steel 29er Upgrade Packages starting from R7475.88

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.za/images/products/Inbred-29er-Upgrade-Package-RST.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Aluminum 29er Upgrade Packages starting from R8521.68

 

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.za/images/products/On-One-29%20rolling%20chassis-No-Bars.jpg

[Kiwi]

Great debate guys; I'm now convinced I don't need to buy that 29er since I am small.

 

One last post: some hubbers like JB have mentioned marketing in their submissions. Are the other boffins above not underestimating the power of marketing in this 29er discussion? It plays a hugely influential role between scientists and their hard facts at one end' date=' and consumers with their subjective opinions at the other. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

Marketing is a necessary process that ?converts science into sales?. If the scientific evidence in favour of 29? wheels is fundamentally thin (as it appears to be), by the time it reaches the consumer having gone through the marketing process, it can emerge totally ambiguous. Is the whole 29er initiative not a result of a highly competitive industry where the marketing budget is bigger than the R&D budget?

 

Beware of the power of marketing; its function is to extract money from the ill-informed consumer. Rather sort your mind and body out first, and only then challenge the diameter of your wheels. Don?t forget someone once said ?It?s not about the bike.?

[/quote']

Wilow Koerber has riden for Gary Fisher for many years, always on a 26er. After Heather Irmger won the US Short Course and Long Course XC Champs (and the World SS Champs) on her 29er Wilow took what is a big risk for a Pro in the middle of a race season, she swapped from 26er to 29er 3 months before the Worlds in Australia. She came 3rd, her best ever finish. Wilow is 5'2" (157cm)

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3346/3424817277_f761c1beab.jpg

[Eldron]

If anyone is keen to try a 29er, lives in Johannesburg and is a size Large you are more than welcome to take my Air 9 for a spin - I'll join you on my 26" single speed.

 

My final take on 29ers...

 

There are two types of mtb riders:

1) Those that love 29ers

2) Those that haven't tried them

[Tumbleweed]

If anyone is keen to try a 29er' date=' lives in Johannesburg and is a size Large you are more than welcome to take my Air 9 for a spin - I'll join you on my 26" single speed.

 

?

 

My final take on 29ers...

 

?

 

There are two types of mtb riders:

 

1) Those that love 29ers

 

2) Those that haven't tried them

[/quote']

 

hahahaha! and if they ride away from you?

 

 

[Eldron]

hahahaha! and if they ride away from you?

 

I'll make sure their car is parked at my house and the keys are in my safe!

[Tumbleweed]

And I agree' date=' this is Technical Questions and Answers so here we have technical discussions.

 

Perhaps there should be another section called MArketing Questions and Answers where the touchy feely stuff can be debated in circles.

 

[/quote']

there's that old thing about science saying a bumblebee can't fly. i know the head of trauma at a local hospital, and he says many surgeons are arrogant because they see their work as purerly scientific. he, however, believes that a good surgeon combines science and art. marketing peeps get their material from the r&d folk, who in turn get feedback from riders, who may not know why something works better, they just know it does. i don't buy all marketing bumpf, but neither would i dismiss it all.

 

 

[Minion]

 

there's that old thing about science saying a bumblebee can't fly.

Damn, I hate this persistent myth.

An entomologist, Antoine Magnan, wrote in the inroduction to his book 'Le Vol Des Insectes' (1934) that he had applied the laws of aerodynamics (applicable to fixed-wing aircraft) to insects and arrived at the conclusion that their flight was impossible.

Clearly, what he actually proved was that an aeroplane the size of a bumble bee cannot fly.

 

I agree that doctors shouldn't be arrogant: after all, an MB BCh is only a three year degree with an additional three years of practical work

 

[Tumbleweed]

there's that old thing about science saying a bumblebee can't fly.

Damn' date=' I hate this persistent myth.
An entomologist, Antoine Magnan, wrote in the inroduction to his book 'Le Vol Des Insectes' (1934) that he had applied the laws of aerodynamics (applicable to fixed-wing aircraft) to insects and arrived at the conclusion that their flight was impossible.
Clearly, what he actually proved was that an aeroplane the size of a bumble bee cannot fly.

I agree that doctors shouldn't be arrogant: after all, an MB BCh is only a three year degree with an additional three years of practical work
[/quote']

was just using the bee thing as a metaphor

[Ox_Wagon]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned it be for.....<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Road motorcycle wheels:  17? front and rear

Adventure toursers (on/off road): 19? front and 17? rear

MX and enduro (off road):  21? front and 18? rear

 

Maybe the MXers can shed some light on the preference for bigger wheels?..

PS: Golefty you can stop being so defensive ..... Cannondale DOES make a 29er now.

 http://www3.cannondale.com/bikes/10/cusa/model-0FS291S.html

 

[Guest Iron]

hahahaha! and if they ride away from you?

 

I'll make sure their car is parked at my house and the keys are in my safe!

I'll be keen to see who is capable of riding away from Eldron

[Eldron]

PS: Golefty you can stop being so defensive ..... Cannondale DOES make a 29er now.

 

 http://www3.cannondale.com/bikes/10/cusa/model-0FS291S.html

 

 

What would be interesting is the reason why Cannondale, Giant, Spesh etc. started making 29ers. Was it just a marketing ploy to stop the competition tapping into a new market without them or did they actually do some research and decided that a 29er was a worthwhile addition?

 

Has anyone come across these questions being answered by the manufacturers?

[Ox_Wagon]

I decided to perpetrate some arm chair engineering?..<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

I started by see if it is possible to compare apple with apples.  There is some interesting ?findings?.

 

Firstly it seams the wheels are ?about? 12% heavier.  It would be interesting to see what the effect is on inertia of the wheel?

 

Thanks to <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Santa Cruz?s site it was possible find that there is ?about? 10% increase (1.16kg) in weight for similar bikes.

 

This translates to a whopping 1.34% weight increase for rider (skinny racer) and bike combined.   Makes one think about all that money you want to spend to loose a few grams of your bike.  The bike is not the problem?.. 

 

Finally I tried to quantify how much STATIC forward force is required to lift the front wheel over an obstacle.  I looked at the moment where the wheel just lifts of ground and all the forces act on the edge of the obstacle.  The force is calculated by determining the moments (caused by the weight on the front wheel and forward force) around this point. 

 

It is interesting to see that the % reduction is affected by the height of the obstacle.  So just looking at this there is a small improvement using a 29er with an additional weight penalty.  The inertia of the wheel may be a deciding factor (horses for courses).

 

 Ox_Wagon2009-12-04 07:41:44

[Eldron]

Here is a test that gives the edge to a 26" Trek Top Fuel over a Salsa Dos Niner in a 24 hour race.

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dave-harris-26-vs-29-inch-challenge

 

(he did normalise the gearing GoLefty)

 

In some other less scientific tests quoted in the article the Top Fuel won on a flat, smooth course and the two bikes tied on a "3.2 mile competitive course".

 

At the end he does say that he thinks the Dos Niner will have the edge on descents and technical rocky terrain.

 

Soooo.......it would appear that you should own a 29er if:

1) You are tall

2) Prefer descents and technical, rocky terrain

 

So we have two tests on this thread - one where the 29er clocked faster times wth less power and one where a 26er managed the same time using less power...

 

I give up....

 

NEVER!

 

I'll keep trawling for more faux scientifi tests - I remember one where Cyclingnews did a chllege using two Lynskey ti frames with exactly the same groups/wheel/tyres/pressue etc which was the most "scientific" test I've seen - can't seem to find it though - anyone have the link???

 

[Eldron]

 

It is interesting to see that the % reduction is affected by the height of the obstacle.  So just looking at this there is a small improvement using a 29er with an additional weight penalty.  The inertia of the wheel may be a deciding factor (horses for courses).

 

 

I think  I may be in love with you Ox_Wagon

 

 

[Eldron]

This one just about borders on fanaticism but it does reinforce the benefits I've felt...and they adore Niners

http://www.gear.com/29-er-mountain-bikes-are-they-a-fad-or-the-future/

Eldron2009-12-04 04:53:54

[Wyatt Earp]

hahahaha! and if they ride away from you?

 

?

 

I'll make sure their car is parked at my house and the keys are in my safe!

 

 

I'll be keen to see who is capable of riding away from Eldron

 

Iron, that's easy, oops I hope Eldron is not reading this