Ritchley WCS Carbon stem: loose bolts

[Reg Lizard]

I recently purchased a brand new Ritchley WCS Carbon stem and discovered that after the first couple of rides the bolts clamping onto the fork steerer would come loose after a ride and that I had to retorque them, is that normal? After every occurance I took it completely off just to make sure that something else wasn't wrong and then refitted them and torqued them to 5nm.

 

Rode the DieBurgerFietstoer yesterday and it seems to be fine.

[shade]

NOT, do you have any grease compound on them ?

 

had mine for ages and never had that problem ever..

 

maybe go a little tighter..

[Reg Lizard]

First time fitted it with nothing, but after the third time it came loose I used some carbon grease and it still came loose. Then I removed the grease and just tightened it to specification, which is 5nm max.

[Johan Bornman]

The carbon paste will have no effect on those bolts, since you're applying the paste to the steerer and stem, not pinch bolts.

Pinch bolts have to be tightened according to strict religion. They must be tightened incrimentally and alternatively. I.e. tighten the one a little, then the other a little, then the first one a little, then the other a little then....you get my drift?

Then only bring it up to torque. If they still come loose, look for cracks in both the stem and the steerer. They should not require loctite to stay put.

 

 

[Reg Lizard]

Thanks JB, I did this the last time and that is most probably why my steerer is still aligned after yesterday's ride. I will however check tonight whether the torque on these bolts are accroding to specs (5nm).

[Reg Lizard]

Ok, so I checked the bolts and they are once again loose!!! Checked the stem and steerer for cracks- none.

 

Read on the Ritchey website the following "The gap between top of steerer tube and upper lip of the stem must be no less than 2mm"

 

I think mine could be a bit more than that, can that be the cause, although my alu Ritchey 4 axis stem work perfect like that.

[Johan Bornman]

That doesn't explain if it should be a positive or negative gap. Arrange things, with spacers and such, so that the steerer protroduces PAST the top of the stem. Add another spacer on top and repeat the procedure. From the sounds of things your steerer is compressing and thus allowing the bolts to come loose.

[Reg Lizard]

Thanks JB I'll try it tonight and report back what happend. It's just strange that the Alu stem from the same manufacturer worked fine, but that the carbon product is causing this problem.

[Reg Lizard]

@ JB: I took your advice and reduced the spacers underneath the stem on the steerer by approximately 4mm- this decreased  "The gap between top of steerer tube and upper lip of the stem ... to less than 2mm", viz a negative gap.Torgued it afterwards and went wheeling, bunny hopping, etc around the neighborhood. When I got home I tested the tension on the bolts and whalla they were still 5nm- so the bottomline is, that I think your advice by moving the spacers around worked, thanx. Will keep you posted if anything goes wrong again, but I really think the problem is something of the past.

[Johan Bornman]

I think a couple of spins around the neighbourhood are perhaps a bit premature for celebration but lets hope it works. I noticed this deformation of carbon tubes on handlebars. Those bar-ends on MTB bars really deform the carbon ends, making them come loose. The solution is to move them inboard a little but but that makes for an inelegant bar. The real solution would be for some sort of plug that fits toightly inside the bar end. Same for steerers.

 

Upgrade to steel I say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Reg Lizard]

What I also did not tell you was that before I did the "decrease in spacers thing" I torqued the bolts and "bounced" the front of the bike up and down. Checked the bolts and they were loose again. Then I did the decrease thing, torqued the bolts, "bounced" the front of the bike again and checked and the bolts were still tight. Then only did I go for the ride (wheeling, bunny hopping, ramping, etc) and checked and the bolts were still fine. So lets hope for the best, but time will tell.

 

You say steel, does that mean I have to rebuild my old (classic) Eddy Merckx (that weighs about 13 kg's)

 

Nah, I'd rather buy a new carbon steerer or jump back on my previous steed, the Giant TCR.

[Reg Lizard]

Good news, it would appear as if my problems are indeed something of the past. Had two 70km+ rides this weekend and the stem bolts are still torqued according to specs.

[carelgrundlingh]

Might be a stupid question: Do you have a compression plug in the steerer (similar to starnut for ally steerer)?

@JB: Would/Could you have the same problem (deforming of carbon steerer due to stem) even with a steerer compression plug?

[Reg Lizard]

Yes, I do, why?

[carelgrundlingh]

Just applying my VERY limited knowledge Lizard

 

Hence the question for JB in the same post. Thought that might be the reason why the carbon gets misformed, and he advised on getting a plug thingy for bar ends on MTB's. So I thought the compression nut will counter the deforming in a carbon steerer.

[Johan Bornman]

Might be a stupid question: Do you have a compression plug in the steerer (similar to starnut for ally steerer)?

@JB: Would/Could you have the same problem (deforming of carbon steerer due to stem) even with a steerer compression plug?

 

I think it is a good and valid question. The answer is yes. Just this weekend one of my students reported a creak emanating from his stem area. I said we'll see if we can find it once we come to disassembling the headset.

 

We found it. The steerer was compressed at the top end of the stem and cracked. We could see the deformation and crack quite clearly. In this case he had a compression plug in there but this was not at exactly the same position as the two stem pinch bolts. The plug was a bit deeper in than the top pinch bolt and it effectively crushed the steerer.

 

We sawed the cracked bit off (see photo) and positioned the stem a bit lower, with a spacer on top, so that the stem does not sit past the steerer but stick out a good 5mm. Luckily he had space to play with and a flip-flop stem that could go upwards still. Many people are not that lucky.

 

 

 

Here you can see the bit we cut off. In the 10-to position you'll see the deformation where the pinch bolt cracked and deformed the steerer. It was a good 6mm below the top of the stem with the compression bolt another 5mm below that. If you look carefully you'll see the clamp's imprint.

 

Interestingly-enough, a week ago this bike went to a famous bike shop for the creak. The mechanic simply torqued the bolts without inspecting the poor assembly underneath.  Faulty stems are dangerous. Don't mess with them. If possible, upgrade to aluminium or even steel steerers.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My tongue is in my cheek. OK?