whitesox

HR and Power don't measure the same thing!!! If you are going to spend the effort and money to train scientifically, which you are when buying a power meter. Then you may as well do it properly and combine it with HR. If you know what HR means. My point. Nuff said.... So, Bikemax, are you going to sponsor me that power meter so I can test your/my theory? HAHAwhitesox2007-06-12 09:43:26

The point I was trying to make. Thanx.

Ronelle, I don't have a PM on my bike, thats irrelavant. I am able to do measured power training, not on my bike though. My choice would be SRM, if money was no option.whitesox2007-06-10 14:39:00

Are you offering to sponsor me one? One should be open to new ideas and methods, always, and to think of ways to improve the old ones... Good luck to you too!whitesox2007-06-10 14:34:05

I on the other hand don't have that patience or time to keep arguing. As for HR not alwys being the same under the same circumstances. I have mentioned that before. What about another example - have you ever noticed that different cadences elicit different HR response - even though the power output remains constant ? What are you trying to say? This is common knowledge and a whole dedate on it's own... Don't you think that with training as you become able to produce more power, that LT should in fact increase? Is this not what we want? A higher LT? As for application in the field, both HR and power output at LT are important guidelinesin training. You can't merely watch power output in a braek, you may feel crap, and still be stronger than the rest... But yes, missing turns or soft pedalling could help, still you need to be strongest an smartest. Are you not undermining a session when you quit because you camnnot produce adequate power? HR, and power for that matter only muddies the water when you don't know what you are doing. It's easy to measure, but can interpret your data. This is not always easy with HR, but does not mean it should be disregarded. Power is a measure of output, of what the body is doing. HR (and LT) is a measure of what is happening to the body while you are doing it. I feel that both HR and Power are amazing training tools. But they don't in all instances measure the same thing. However when used together, they are more powerfull (excuse the pun) than on their own. I rest my case. If you feel you want to discuss this more PM me and we can arrange a meeting.

Firstly the % age max HR is not accurate... You say you simply cannot make the power and have to rest? How many riders don't try and push themselves when they aren't riding at levels they normally do. Hence, HR should ALSO be used. It's a measure of what is happening to the body, not merely what the body is doing. The relevance of HR at peak power, would give you an indication progress. You may be able to produce more watts at lower HR or the the same watts at lower HR, etc etc. Instead of just riding at a certain wattage, you may be able to improve quicker and monitor progress. Even handy in working out interval sessions... Think outside the box, you need not have to measure LT during a race. Use it as a training tool, a test every 2-3 months will give you an indication at what HR and wattage this lies. If a rider can improve this it could have great benefits. HR does indicate stress, fatigue heat etc. You should just know what to look for. By combining HR and power it would be easier to for instance delay fatigue. I do agree though that too much should not always be read into HR, or power for that matter. You get graet days and awful ones. If you have to decide whether or not to work in a braek, you are probably not strong enough anyway, besides if you are Malcolm Lange... whitesox2007-06-10 07:28:43

Just an interesting fact... Pantani attacks Lance in the Alps, he's angry, the pace is astonishing. Postal panics. Should they chase? Bruyneel phones the infamous Dr Ferrari and asks his advice. The good Dr takes into account Pantani's weight, the slope etc and what he knows about Lance (power, lactate threshold etc). He phones Bruyneel back, says Pantani will blow, let him hang. What happens? Pantani blows, Lance puts time into everybody. Powerfull, if used correctly.

No you don't you are racing and want to win regardless... Training is a very different story. Heart rate changes daily due to a variety of factors. But, you don't simply want to monitor the output you are producing during training, you want to monitor both your output (performace) and physiological progress. Its not merely about putting out watts. Lets say you have had a very hard week of training, you only using a power meter. You cant produce the power you are use to. What now? Use HR as reference... Or, when in good form, it could be very useful to determine at what HR you produce peak power. You can even roughly determine lactate thresholds etc etc. Add physiological testing such as VO2max. peak power, lactate to the equation and power combined with heart rate as training tools take on a whole new dimension. Using power alone as your only training tool would be fooloish. It would be like zooping up your Golf GTI with no regard for the consequences to the machine or disregarding the fact that you could be able to zoop the thing up even more, and with careful tweeking get the maximum out of it. You cant just rev the engine into the red and keep it there, the body is the same. That said, HR is used incorrectly, I feel by most. It's useless in most instances during a race, so is power for that matter. It should be used to measure progress and compare intensities both during and between sessions. Just my opinion.whitesox2007-06-09 17:40:18

Thats a bold statement, niterider. Pantani rarely used a computer and when sponsored a HR monitor, a said he did not need one, just a thought.... Kempo, as someone with a bit of science background, I find it hard to believe that the I-Bike is very accurate, I have read up a litlle on how it works, not gonna bore you with why I say so. Nonetheless, it does give power readings that can be used as a reference during training, and yes, I think you should use that with heart rate...

what are your symptoms and why do you ask this.

Another one missing the point! I never looked down on him, he is the one with an attitude problem. And I never said they don't battle with the wind. THE RULES ARE BEING INFORCED POORLY! Unsportsmanlike and unfriendly! Yours Truly Asshole

Nee Auction, jy mis die punt, en ja die re?l is maklik om te verstaan maar minder maklik om toe te pas! Ek het niks om aan jou of enige iemand anders te bewys Popeye!

Jou probleem, passop dat my ma jou net nie inhaal van E af nie...

Hoekom kom ry jy nie league saamm met my nie ou poepeye, of isit poephol? Dis totaal anders as doping... My punt is dat ek liewer gedq sou word in die verlede as om te drop in 'n gutter en aan die regte kant van die pad te ry in gutter omstandighede. In die verlede is die ryers wat die die re?ls eerste oortree het nooit gestraf... Dus, die re?l is *** toegepas in die verlede en dit word tans net so *** toegepas aangesien onskuldige ryers daaronder ly... Weereens jyt waarskynlik nog nooit gerace, jy ry dan vir 'n index, ag shame. Dus hou op comment, jyt geen benul en klink net dom vir die wat weet... OH, en kommin, aangesien jy soetwyn drink... HAHA My hoofprobleem is nie die re?l nie, soos ek al voorheen ges? het, totdat daar nie road closure is nie, is dit nodig. Dit is hoe sekere re?ls toegepas word wat my en meeste ander ryers afpis...

Popeye, jys 'n funrider en moenie comment oor racing want jy was obviously nog nooit in 'n race... En Auction 'n Duathlete... As 'n team gutter en ek moet kies tussen 'n drop en bietjie oor witlyn ry (binne veilige perke) kies ek ry oor die lyn, want as jy drop is j race anyway oor... Die probleem met die witlyn re?l is dat dit al die jare verkeerd toegepas is en dat officials nou skielik "mean" wil optree om 'n punt te maak... Moenie my verkeerd verstaan, totdat daar full road closure is, is die witlyn re?l nodig, maar pas dit tog net redelik toe...

Ek stem saam Lamb, hou by die re?ls. Lees my eerste post... Maar die laaste paar races wat ek gery het was ryers oor die algemeen baie verantwoordelik, as jy Malmesbury gery het sou jy weet hoekom dit so belaglik is. Die hele ding is dat daar eintlik niks gebeur het, nie 'n gutter aan die verkeerde kant of enige so iets... Moenie comment oor dinge waarvan jy niks weet.

Sonder Racing my vriend gaan Funrides ook maar 'n knou vat... Ek weet nie wat jy bedoel met funrides wat 'n ryskool is? Die tipe van fietsry verskaf geen vorm van skool wat racing betref. Dit gaan ook nie om doen wat ons wil nie, ons soek net konsekwente officials wat re?l toepas op 'n regverdige en verdraagsame manier. Lees my heel eerste post. Om jou 'n voorbeeld te noem: 'n Goeie vriend van my se freewheel het in een van ons land se grootse wedrenne gebreek. Die commisaire het nie sy backup kar oor die radio in kennis gestel nie... Hy het uiteindelik 'n ander wiel gekry, terug gepace agter sy kar vir omtrent 1.5km, en was toe geDQ... Unfair ne? In Europa sou dinge baie anders gewees het... Indien 'n ryer drop en terug pace MOET hy geDQ word. Die selfde geld vir alle re?ls, wees konsekwent en regverdig. Ek sien ook geen rede waarom ons leagues na 14h00 moet skuif, wat gaan ons daardeur bereik, sekere funriders toon ook wel belangstelling en aspireer om league te ry, so dit gaan nadelig wees vir fietsry as geheel... Ry jy maar net jou fietsie in jou groepie, en moenie so baie worry oor dinge wat jou nie betrek nie of waarvan jy geen benul het nie, Popeye.

Auction LAmb het ook nie Malmesbury gery nie. Sal die mense wat nie daar was nie asb net hulle bekke hou... 90% van elke race word wel deur funriders gery, maar is dit nie juis hulle wat SA ryers in Europa se groot wedrenne wil sien nie. As ons nie oordentelike races in die kaap kan hou, met oordentelike re?ls, officials en ryers nie, hoe gaan fietsry ontwikkel en verbeter??? Funrides is als goed en wel, maar dit doen niks vir racing nie. Ek stem heeltemal saam dat ryers wat die re?ls oortree gestraf moet word, maar PPA is nie konsekwent nie en het geen begrip of verdraagsaamheid nie. Wat in Malmesbury gebeur het is die perfekte voorbeeld van wat gebeur as "Funriders" racing probeer run. Hierby moet ek egter vir falconsports uitsonder, Francois doen 'n great job. Eks jammer ek kan nie vannaand se AGM bywoon nie, as daar enige ryers is deel wil wees van 'n beweging waar ryers hulle stamme wil dik maak, stig 'n post of kontak my...

It doesn't help to have officials meeting whoo were'nt even there, i.e. standing at the finish line... Officials should use their discretion on this matter. I was dq'ed myself and I'm probably the most sh*t scared person of oncoming traffic... Nobody raced unresponsibilly! We as riders should make a stand, we should set up a structure who can represent us at meetings and be our voice...

Hey Longbow! Thought you said you heard the ass end of the conversation? How can you make all these accusations, should you not get your facts straight first? Had a drink with Mr Thomas after the race and he seemed rather happy... Should wtch what you accuse people of, might get the ass end of something up your own ass?