Java001

Interesting, I assumed that most sales were pitched slightly above what the seller wanted i.e. Mavic Aksiums where a seller is trying for R 1500, but will accept say R1200, where the sale is then concluded when haggling or negotiation reached an acceptable level between these two points in a given period of time. Maybe a poll to see how hubbers who sell regularly do their pricing ?

OR how is this for a variation of the NOT NEGOTIABLE technique ! The hubber indicates "no pressure to sell", bumps it daily and gives no indication that he is willing to negotiate ..... https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/95631-f-o-r-s-a-l-e-raleigh-team-carbon-with-sram-force/page__st__140 8 pages, 153 posts, not a single serious offer ! eish

Buying and selling always involve a degree of negotiation, so it is a bit strange when For Sale posts are labelled NOT NEGOTIABLE - I often wonder whether it is a selling technique to make the goods seem very valuable and if it is, whether it actually works. One often sees a NOT NEG seller eventually accepting an offer ............ to save face, I suppose the offer accepted will be a pm.

Agree with the RESPECT angle, but respect is a two way street ! I find it extremely DISRESPECTFULL when sellers insult the Hub's collective IQ by trying to sell "brand new/ never used" items at prices higher than online shops. Because of possible duties & VAT, I am not referring to comparisons to CRC, but sellers can at least do a bit of homework and check e.g. wheel and groupset prices at the local online shops Planet-X, Buycycle & CWC, BEFORE posting in the for sale section. If your LBS sold you Mavic Aksium's @ R 2 500 and CWC has them for R 1899, you cannot sell your "as new set, taken off a bicycle never ridden" etc. for R 2 000 - you might think that a 20% discount seems fair, but it is only a ill informed hubber that will be interested. Expect hubbers to point this out to you and don't be offended.

The auction site ad on the homepage advertising a Cervelo R3 Ultgera has been bugging me for a few days - is it not perhaps an Ultegra ? If a spelling error, it would seem that even the corporates are now playing an active part in "dumbing-down" South Africans, where very few are able to spell or detect spelling mistakes !

My original post/reply dealt with problems experienced from Wednesday to Saturday and was adding to problems experienced by Ladies Vets and Men 50 +; read more about it on other posts https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/97182-sa-tt-champs/ https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/97432-2011-sa-champs/ I have absolutely no problem with Saturdays minimal delay and never said it was CSA's fault - how sure are you that PE traffic knew about it 4 months ago ? As it turned out the Saturday elite and under 23 races were the only problem free ones, because by then the team managers had stepped in to control safety and were all following their riders. CSA had also instructed officials to relax certain rules and use a bit of discretion e.g. 10% lap rule. Also the traffic early Saturday morning was non existent compared to that experienced over the weekdays on Thursday and Friday. Despite this it was not 100% full road closure though. In my expert opinion the refusal to work at 7.00 had more to do with the outrageous amount of money the Metro authorities wanted from the organisers, than with working hours - barely 24 hours later the Volkswagen Herald race had road closures in some areas as early as 5.30 a.m. - same cops, same city. Which brings me to the point I made all along i.e. that most if not all of the drama could have been avoided with a more sensible recommended route choice.

@ Napalm, thanks for clarifying re CSA salaries. @ Fandacious - having a rough day ? This post is not about Hendrik Lemmer and no one even mentioned Hendrik Lemmer until @Zabel made a comment about him having to pay back his salary - it has now been explained that he does not get one ! One would think that he will as CSA Road volunteer have to try and sort out the mess, but that does not mean that it was caused by him or that he is necessarily responsible. Were you in PE for the Road Champs ? Did you ride and enjoy it ? Was the roads OK and safe ? C'mon, give us ole vets the benefit of your input.

Guys don't lose focus here ! It DOES NOT matter whether it is a Barry, David, Roger, Lionel, Kobus, Greg, Clive, Hendrik, Louis, Shane e.t.c. that is responsible for the mess ! What is important is that CSA and/or ECC step forward to take ownership of the problem and accept accountability ........... the 4 min odd video clip of Barry Austin on day three blowing bubbles up everyone's ar$&s by "replacing" officials with team managers does not cut it ! Also does CSA officials REALLY not get paid ? Just asking, because the financial statements on CSA website show that at 31/8/2010 Year To Date Licensing Income amounted to R 3 mill and Salaries of approx R 800 000 is shown as expense. Also see under expenses a few K spent on Legal Costs, so maybe a legal challenge is not such a far fetched idea ?

@ Gary Painter - yes, you heard correct. There was no advance publicity and PE people were only informed about the The Herald Volkswagen race and knew nothing about SA's. No ads, signboards, posters. Spoke to local media ... they thought it was practise & warm-up for the weekends Herald race. When a local radio station heard it was SA's, they tried to contact the organisers for detail to broadcast, but eventually gave up. As also posted elsewhere, let me as PE cyclist, share a few facts, opinions and rumours with fellow hubbers – please note that I am not involved in ECC or with CSA. Not many of us REALLY knew how and why East Cape Cycling ECC (incorporating Eastern Cape Cycling & Border Cycling) became the host of the SA’s. Rumour has it that they claimed to have been the first to have made a deposit of a few R million to CSA – a lot of the other provinces seem to think this never happened? Government has never made big funding available for cycling, so most licensed riders know that CSA serve the political transformation agenda – it takes from cyclists to give to 20 million non-cyclists hoping that 200 will become cyclists. I think this is called “taking cycling to the people” or is it “taking from cycling people”? Think also of the upcoming Cell C Tour that will ignore good cycling roads and do potholed township routes around PE. The Eastern Cape as poorest province is the political home of the ruling party; add to this a few people involved with ECC and CSA that want to and have perhaps already laid their grubby paws on LOTTO developmunt funding …………… ECC are hampered by a chronic lack of funds, resources and manpower. Club involvement of its approx 26 clubs is minimal and at a recent AGM almost no Clubs even attended. This is well known to CSA – the 2010 ECC President currently works for CSA? As alluded to by an earlier post/thread, ECC and it’s 2011 President elect Shane Bradfield, DID NOT choose the SA route – ECC recommended to CSA the usual quite safe cycling routes on the outskirts of PE that is used for most local races as well as The Herald & Engen races e.g. Greenbushes, Seaview, Maitlands, van Stadens etc. CSA decided that they needed to take cycling “to the people” so insisted on a route through Humewood/Central/Walmer/Summerstrand and this was later amended to Humewood/Central/ Walmer with the Summerstrand section being regarded as “dangerous”. Had CSA perhaps bothered to obtain input from local clubs and riders, they would have realised that neither the original nor the amended route was safe unless there was going to be 100% full road closure. They would also have been told that full or even partial road closure at the Beachfront and suburbs would be almost impossible to achieve during weekdays (even if CSA were able to spend R 350 000 to R 1 mill to pay the Metro for full road closure). With most of the championships being held when people were at work, there would be few if any spectators along the route. Add to this that marshals consisted of untrained pdi’s with bibs and flags, who in a few instances were seen to fall asleep on the job, and things were always going to get messy. CSA preach rider safety, because that is the politically correct thing to, but rider safety was NOT their main priority when the route was chosen; to justify the amended route they later issued a statement that read “The safety of cyclists is the one thing the board of Cycling South Africa (CSA) will never ever compromise on even if it means upsetting a lot cyclists and spectators”. I saw most of the road events on the Thursday and Friday – NOT a single event could be regarded as safe, by even the wildest stretch of the imagination. That there were no fatalities was quite amazing. Many competitors simply pulled off due to safety concerns and close calls with cars and taxis on the route. In order to avoid accidents many cyclists had to come to complete stops at many places on the route, which effectively ended their race as they were pulled off by the officials if their lap times were more than 10% in excess of the leading riders. The agony and embarrassment ended on Saturday afternoon when all was done and dusted and many wildly irate competitors started their return journeys home. A few hours later at 6.00 am on Sunday morning The Volkswagen Herald Cycle race started and when prize giving started at 1.00 pm, it was evident that this event had gone off with relatively few glitches. What was different ? With only a few changes, the organisers and race director were the same ECC people that were involved with the SA’s. Big difference was proper road closure where needed and although the routes all started and ended at the Beachfront, it utilised established routes in Walmer, Seaview, Greenbushes, Maitlands areas BECAUSE THE SAFETY AND NEEDS OF THE CYCLISTS motivated the choices, NOT some inappropriate and misguided CSA ideas.

As PE cyclist, let me share a few facts, opinions and rumours with fellow hubbers – please note that I am not involved in ECC or with CSA. Not many of us REALLY knew how and why East Cape Cycling ECC (incorporating Eastern Cape Cycling & Border Cycling) became the host of the SA’s. Rumour has it that they claimed to have been the first to have made a deposit of a few R million to CSA – a lot of the other provinces seem to think this never happened? Government has never made big funding available for cycling, so most licensed riders know that CSA serve the political transformation agenda – it takes from cyclists to give to 20 million non-cyclists hoping that 200 will become cyclists. I think this is called “taking cycling to the people” or is it “taking from cycling people”? Think also of the upcoming Cell C Tour that will ignore good cycling roads and do potholed township routes around PE. The Eastern Cape as poorest province is the political home of the ruling party; add to this a few people involved with ECC and CSA that want to and have perhaps already laid their grubby paws on LOTTO developmunt funding …………… ECC are hampered by a chronic lack of funds, resources and manpower. Club involvement of its approx 26 clubs is minimal and at a recent AGM almost no Clubs even attended. This is well known to CSA – the 2010 ECC President currently works for CSA? As alluded to by an earlier post/thread, ECC and it’s 2011 President elect Shane Bradfield, DID NOT choose the SA route – ECC recommended to CSA the usual quite safe cycling routes on the outskirts of PE that is used for most local races as well as The Herald & Engen races e.g. Greenbushes, Seaview, Maitlands, van Stadens etc. CSA decided that they needed to take cycling “to the people” so insisted on a route through Humewood/Central/Walmer/Summerstrand and this was later amended to Humewood/Central/ Walmer with the Summerstrand section being regarded as “dangerous”. Had CSA perhaps bothered to obtain input from local clubs and riders, they would have realised that neither the original nor the amended route was safe unless there was going to be 100% full road closure. They would also have been told that full or even partial road closure at the Beachfront and suburbs would be almost impossible to achieve during weekdays (even if CSA were able to spend R 350 000 to R 1 mill to pay the Metro for full road closure). With most of the championships being held when people were at work, there would be few if any spectators along the route. Add to this that marshals consisted of untrained pdi’s with bibs and flags, who in a few instances were seen to fall asleep on the job, and things were always going to get messy. CSA preach rider safety, because that is the politically correct thing to, but rider safety was NOT their main priority when the route was chosen; to justify the amended route they later issued a statement that read “The safety of cyclists is the one thing the board of Cycling South Africa (CSA) will never ever compromise on even if it means upsetting a lot cyclists and spectators”. I saw most of the road events on the Thursday and Friday – NOT a single event could be regarded as safe, by even the wildest stretch of the imagination. That there were no fatalities was quite amazing. Many competitors simply pulled off due to safety concerns and close calls with cars and taxis on the route. In order to avoid accidents many cyclists had to come to complete stops at many places on the route, which effectively ended their race as they were pulled off by the officials if their lap times were more than 10% in excess of the leading riders. The agony and embarrassment ended on Saturday afternoon when all was done and dusted and many wildly irate competitors started their return journeys home. A few hours later at 6.00 am on Sunday morning The Volkswagen Herald Cycle race started and when prize giving started at 1.00 pm, it was evident that this event had gone off with relatively few glitches. What was different ? With only a few changes, the organisers and race director were the same ECC people that were involved with the SA’s. Big difference was proper road closure where needed and although the routes all started and ended at the Beachfront, it utilised established routes in Walmer, Seaview, Greenbushes, Maitlands areas BECAUSE THE SAFETY AND NEEDS OF THE CYCLISTS motivated the choices, NOT some inappropriate and misguided CSA ideas.

Being a roadie, who struggle to even cope with a dirty roadbike and who cannot imagine why anyone would want their pride and joy covered in dust and mud,no matter how much fun they might be having, I can't resist a bit of stirring to get this post back on "track" ...... MTB sales by far outstrip Road sales here in the Eastern Cape and many roadies are crossing over to MTB. They often tell you that it is because there is just too much "politics" in road cycling. With politics usually caused by the rider and not by the bike, I wonder how long before there is just going to be too much politics in MTB ?

Very important question here that might have an impact on a correct answer to Edman is whether the co. that picks up the tab, is in any way connected or related to him and/or whether he is employed by them.

Thanks for all help - derailleur & derailleur hanger checked out OK and as indicated the low limit screw was set up right. Greatwhite, "cannot be adjusted any further away from or closer to the spokes" was my clumsy way of indicating that it was spot on and that no further adjustment was necessary or possible. Also checked the rims out for fatigue failure at the nipples, but no sign of that yet ( the rim indicators seem to show that these wheels are still fairly new) - it is indeed possible that when I first detected it, I might in a moment of careless shifting have been cross chain. It turned out to be a combination of rim trueing and resetting of bent drop-outs in a custom made jig, that sorted out my problem and I now have the required clearance between derailleur and spokes. Am told that alloy Raleigh's are prone to bent drop out's irrespective of rider weight ? With the problem now solved, I still need to shop for wheels as the WH-R500's will be used elsewhere - with DRC ST17, DRC ST24 or Mavic Open Pros as rim suggestions + Sapim or DT swiss double butted spokes on 105 hubs, what am I looking at as estimated cost ? Could I do it on a R 2 000 - R 2 500 budget or will budget constraints force me to look at Mavic Aksium's, Fulcrum Racing 7 or Planet X B type alloy ?

Guys, I get the personal thing, but before I start bonding with a saddle in a very personal way, I need to narrow down my options. My LBS's are not keen on letting me try too many of their saddles and I simply do not have the time to test 100 possible options. Having now figured out that I am looking at no less than 145 mm width, many Fiziks, Selle's etc. are automatically eliminated due to being too narrow. Kieran, I agree with you ................. I also like the hard option - did a short ride this weekend on a 2nd hand 145 mm Selle Success V2 carbon seat - it is rock hard but comfy, if that makes any sense ?

I was also a bit dubious about it, but it seems to pass the "logic test" i.e. if your sit bones are measured to be 145 mm apart and the max seat width is 130 mm, your sit bones are hanging down the sides of the seat and not sitting on top of it ? Or are you suggesting that the whole seat measurement process is a gimmick aimed at selling a particular brand or type of seat?

I have a good wheelbuilder locally with a lot of rim and hub spares ( new and 2ndhand) - any recommendations as to a starting point for good quality hub and rim combo's ?

Thanks for the advice - r/d is set so that chain is 100% on the "sweet spot"in first gear i.e. the limit screw cannot be adjusted any further away from or closer to the spokes - the r/d cage however does not clear the spokes by much with no load, so I assumed that when applying my weight that I somehow closed this gap even more. You raise a valid point with brake block rubbing, which have not occurred, but then I never ride with very small pad to rim clearances ...........

Thanks Eugene - hanger is OK, but also having the frame checked out. Have taken in the wheels for a trueing - 3 loose spokes + 2 too tight. I want to set up my current WH-R500's with an U14 cassette as back up set for my son, who is riding a lot, so will need to buy myself a new set; I am not too worried about it having to be an upgrade, so am quite happy to buy a new set @ R 950 from CWC, if that is regarded as a best buy under R 2 000 ............... I am simply not at this stage financially able or prepared to spend more than R 2 K on wheels.

BUMP

My WH-R500 rear wheel spokes are touching the 105 - 9 speed derailer cage when pedalling hard in 1 st, so it is time for serious weight loss (100kg), spoke retensioning or a set of new wheels. Maybe the wheels should be retensioned and used as training wheels ? Trawling CRC & CWC the following budget wheelsets appear at approximate prices indicated: Shimano WHR 500 Wheelset R 850 CRC / R 950 CWC<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Mavic Aksium Wheelset R 1 750 CWC Shimano RS10 Wheelset R 1 300 CRC Shimano RS20 Wheelset R 1 600 CRC Planet X Model B Wheelset R 1999 Fulcrum Racing 7 Wheelset (Red) R 1 999 CWC I need Shimano 9 speed compatibility - also would bladed spokes be "stronger" than the normal J Bend or straight laced spokes or is this a myth ? Suggestions and comments appreciated.

Thankx all for the recommedations so far i.e. Specialized, Planet X Superlight Team, Selle Italia flite gel & Fizik Arione. Have not yet visited our Specialized dealers, but my nearest LBS had a seat cushion for Bontrager fitment and as feared I am looking at minimum 146 width. Any other options in this lineup to consider price wise that perhaps is not quite 1/2 or equal to the market value of a RC 6000 ? Kiwi, pm sent about width of the Planet X option

After many years of not cycling, I recently on the hub bought a nice 2005 RC 6000 - it arrived fiited with a RavX Race-X seat on an Elite seatpost. I could not determine the manufacturing year of the seat, but it shows some wear and has clearly done a bit of distance as the gel sections seem very soft and worn. I will have to look at something new, but the variety seem huge and even if I knew what I was looking for, it might take me 12 months just to research, before I visit my lbs's to see what they stock ! I am 1.74 m with an inseam of 83 cm - leg length "normal", but short upper body - weight wise 105 kg. .............. anyone of similar weight and more experience - what can you recommend as saddle options that have worked for you especially in terms of comfort ? I know this is a personal choice and certainly not a one-size-fits-all science, but I am looking for a realistic starting point .................

No Walmer Track - event hosted by Walmer Cycling Club at the Port Elizabeth track at the Westbourne Oval, Central, Port Elizabeth.