Java001

previous one fell into the donga mentioned ?

Crash replacement of Rudy Project helmets CWC vs LBS was won by my LBS, an authorised ASG supplier. Maybe a bit unfair to compare CWC to the LBS ? Okay, lets compare to one of the other main online stores in SA, that seems to have some hubber support - CWC versus Buycycle.co.za ? Buycycle advised as follows: We only source our items through the local distributors to give you peace of mind and assurance that you'll have have local backing on all our products( Yes,ASG).

Here is the link to another post confirming the Rudy Project helmet crash replacement policy by local distributors ASG. https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/96922-rudy-project-sa-tel/page__p__1389578__hl__rudy__fromsearch__1#entry1389578 Would still like to know whether the overseas distributors who supply Rudy Project to CWC, offer a crash replacement warrantee to its customers i.e. CWC in this instance ?

Yes, quite correct - which means that all SA bicycle shops who sell Rudy Project helmets they buy from ASG ( 99.99%) has since 2007 offered this warrantee ......... as explained to me by ASG, it's nothing new !

Velo, irrespective of what CWC now state, the guarantee displayed on their website says "The authorised South African distributor of these products is under no obligation to honour the manufacturer's guarantees/warrantees or to provide aftersales service.( I read this as taking ASG out of the picture, as required by SA Law ) Chris Willemse Cycles and our international suppliers will still carry the normal warrantees/guarantees of these products aswell as providing after-sales service." The CWC guarantee does not speak specifically of manufacturers at all, but in a wide sense speaks of CWC as retailer + international suppliers. It would seem that the crash replacement warrantee works through the distributors and NOT the manufacturer, although it is hard to imagine how a distributor can afford to offer this without some degree of support/involvement from the manufacturer. Is it perhaps true that manufacturers use the damaged helmets for R & D purposes, as mentioned by a poster ? If in SA, a Rudy Project helmet is sold to you via your LBS, providing such LBS is an ASG authorised dealer and LBS acquired it via the sole authorised SA distributor, ASG, a crash replacement warrantee is applicable. You pay 35% of the recommended retail price and they give you a new helmet – simple as that! I confirmed this with ASG today. So in my instance, had I bought from an authorised dealer, I would now pay R 455 (35% of the R 1 300 RRP), for a new helmet. Although I can provide proof of purchase from CWC and supplied my invoice number and date of purchase to them when I phoned, I am still not sure whether the responses now from CWC point to a crash replacement warrantee being applicable or not? Must I just provide a copy of my invoice? CWC indicates that they purchase from authorised overseas suppliers, so a crash replacement warrantee might be applicable. If, for instance CWC buys directly from for example, the authorised Rudy Project distributor in Portugal, Desafios do Mundo Ltd ( per the Rudy Project website) and we for the moment assume that this distributor similar to ASG offer a crash replacement warrantee to their customers, then CWC is covered and can pass it on to their customers. If this is the case, the info I was given over the phone by CWC was wrong. If however no crash replacement warrantee exists, the warning to other hubbers in my original post is very pertinent – whilst I did not specifically enquire at the time of online purchase as to a crash replacement warrantee, I was aware of crash replacement warrantee being “normal” in respect of Rudy Project helmets in SA and nothing in the above mentioned guarantee on the CWC website, led me to believe that my position as customer at CWC was any different to any other bicycle shop in SA. In any event, I thought I was comparing CWC apples with LBS apples, which clearly was not the case, so school fees paid, lesson learnt.

The following appear under terms and conditions on the CWC site: Guarantee The authorised South African distributor of these products is under no obligation to honour the manufacturer's guarantees/warrantees or to provide aftersales service. Chris Willemse Cycles and our international suppliers will still carry the normal warrantees/guarantees of these products aswell as providing after-sales service. As I know of a number of crash replacement's @ 35%o n Rudy Project helmets that have been dealt with via local bike shops, I have linked CWC's indication that a crash replacement warrantee was not applicable to my purchase of the helmet as an indication that it was a grey import. Copied below some detail which appears on the ASG site, which defines "grey", as I also understand it. GREY IMPORTS NOTICE THIS NOTICE IS TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF CONSUMERS FROM UNLAWFUL TRADE PRACTICES AND / OR PURCHASING FAKE PRODUCTS ONLY DEALERS DISPLAYING OUR OFFICIAL DEALER SIGNS OR WHO ARE LISTED ON OUR WEB SITE AS DEALERS MAY OFFICIALLY SELL, SUPPORT AND SERVICE OUR BRANDS IN SOUTHERN AFRICA. IF YOU ARE IN DOUBT ABOUT A DEALER PLEASE CONTACT US AT 0861 783 972 IT HAS COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT A SMALL QUANTITY OF PINARELLO, RUDY PROJECT & SIDI BRANDED PRODUCTS HAVE BEEN GREY IMPORTED INTO SOUTH AFRICA AND PINARELLO, RUDY PROJECT & SIDI LOGOS AND BRAND NAMES WHICH ARE COPYRIGHTED TO THEIR REGISTERED AGENTS ARE BEING USED WITHOUT CONSENT. THIS ACTION MIS-REPRESENTS THE BRAND AND IT'S RIGHTS UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW. PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL LEGALLY IMPORTED ASG SPORT SOLUTIONS BRANDS HAVE SERIAL NUMBERS ON THE BOXES AS WELL AS THE BRANDS! PLEASE NOTE THAT THE SERIAL NUMBERS HAVE BEEN DELIBERATELY REMOVED FROM THE BOXES OR ACTUAL PRODUCTS OF GREY IMPORTED GOODS. OBVIOUSLY THIS ACTION IS DESIGNED TO HIDE THE SOURCE OF THESE PRODUCTS AS THERE ARE CURRENTLY MAJOR LAWSUITS UNDERWAY TO ENFORCE BRAND COPYRIGHT BY LOCAL AND INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AGAINST GREY IMPORTERS IN SOUTHERN AFRICA! ASG SPORT SOLUTIONS (PTY) LTD RESERVES THE RIGHT TO INSTIGATE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS IN CASES WHERE SERIAL NUMBERS HAVE BEEN DELIBERATELY REMOVED FROM OUR BRANDED PRODUCTS AS SERIAL NUMBERS ARE USED TO FIGHT CRIME IN SOUTHERN AFRICA. ASG SPORT SOLUTIONS (PTY) LTD WILL NOT BE OBLIGED TO SERVICE OR SUPPLY SPARE PARTS FOR ANY GREY IMPORTED BRANDS. PLEASE NOTE: THAT GREY IMPORTED PRODUCTS DO NOT CARRY FACTORY GUARANTEES OR FACTORY SUPPORT OF ANY KIND. PARALLEL IMPORTS ARE GREY IMPORTS WHEN THEY ARE NOT SANCTIONED BY THE COMPANIES THAT HOLD BRAND COPYRIGHT. What are grey Imports? Goods that are parallel imported without the legal sanction of the manufacturer or their distributor who also holds copyright on the Brand. These units are then sold cheaper by companies whose only claim to fame is that they will beat any price. Beware of companies that base all their marketing only on price. They only want your money and by illegally importing branded products on which they have no rights to sell or service - you are left high and dry when problems do occur. Please note that such dealers also use famous branded products to get you into their stores so that they can sell CHEAP no-name-house-brands that they import - which by the way, they make huge profits on! IF I buy on the Internet from an unregistered dealer is it "GREY"? YES IT IS! Products imported by a WEB company are not supplied by ASG Sport Solutions and have absolutely no service support or access to spare parts in South Africa. All goods parallel imported must be clearly defined according to South African law (Please read the text at the bottom of this documents outlining your rights. Can parallel imports be legit? YES - but only in extreme cases where manufacturers have chosen more than one distributor in an economic area for the same brand This is not the case in South Africa for ASG SPORT SOLUTIONS Branded Products. Where do grey goods come from? Unknown - Grey imports are not purchased from the legal manufacturer or their representatives due to legally signed distribution agreements with each country. Grey goods are generally supplied by dubious business people who obtain goods from unknown sources and far from cutting down middlemen it actually increases the number of people in the supply chain. The possibility of these goods having been obtained illegally by misappropriation cannot be discounted. Also most imported grey products are discontinued items that are already obsolete by the time they are offered for sale in Southern Africa. Irresponsible Companies that sell grey imported products often go bankrupt as the service and goods returned costs eventually destroy their profitability, leaving frustrated and angry consumers as well as shareholders of these companies high and dry without any legal recourse. Can ASG Sport Solutions brands be legally parallel imported. NO! ASG Sport Solutions signed international distribution agreements with their distributors relating to imports, sales, service and guarantees for each economic area. ASG Sport Solutions is the sole distributor for Pinarello, Rudy Project, Sidi, San Marco, Most, Scicon & Ftech in Southern Africa and Africa in most instances. Are Parallel/Grey imported goods guaranteed. NO! ASG Sport Solutions empowers their distributors by agreement to give a manufacturers guarantee on products imported by the distributor for each area. Are there international manufacturers Guarantees for ASG Sport Solutions brands? No! Only ASG Sport Solutions products that have been purchased in South Africa through our appointed dealer network carry a manufacturer’s guarantee. Even units purchased in another country by an individual are not guaranteed in South Africa but are still serviceable at a price on presentation of an original sales slip. Can a grey importer offer a legal manufacturers guarantee. No! Without official access to the service and spares departments of our brand companies a manufacturers guarantee is impossible. Businesses purporting to give such a guarantee are in breach of the copyright act and are misrepresenting the brand. The guarantee that a grey importer offers is also meaningless without access to our service channels as most components are designed for and are unique to our products these are also protected by international copyright law. Please note that the product design, the brand LOGO and the entire product including all its parts that carry the brand LOGO of the manufactured product is copyrighted. How do I know if the product you bought has a guarantee? If you cannot find your dealer listed on www.asgsport.co.za/dealerlocator Phone, mail, fax or email us the Model and serial number of your product using the numbers listed at the bottom of this document. PLEASE NOTE: The South African Government has enacted the law described below which clearly states that a person who grey/parallel imports a product must clearly advertise the fact it is not sanctioned by the brand holder and has no official guarantee. The following article describes this law! Local "grey" importers who sell branded goods which they have imported – Must clearly indicate that the products are not covered by a manufacturer's service, warranty or support this include the support of the local distributor. The department of trade and industry has declared it an unfair business practice for retailers not to tell consumers that they're not authorised by the manufacturer to sell these goods. A notice declaring this business practice unlawful was published in the Government Gazette. Retailers of grey imports must now include a prescribed warning, in all their advertising, websites and brochures, saying: "The authorised South African distributor of this product is under no obligation to honour the manufacturers' guarantees/warranties or to provide after-sales service for self ("grey") imported branded products." This effectively means everything grey imported has to be clearly marked as such! Failure to comply will lead to civil prosecution for infringement of the act. Official importers who have signed trade agreements with factories to brand products in South Africa and are responsible for service of officially imported products. IF YOU HAVE BEEN DUPED INTO BUYING A GREY PRODUCT WITHOUT BEING PROPERLY INFORMED THAT IT IS NOT IMPORTED FROM AN OFFICIAL SUPPLIER THEN IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO DEMAND ALL YOUR MONEY BACK. ASG Sport Solutions (Pty) Ltd TEL: 0861 783 972 0861 222 353 FAX: 012 807 3684 info@asgsport.co.za PoBox: 53960 Menlopark 0102

I really enjoy buying from CWC and have done so on a number of occasions. As long as products bought were priced better than at my lbs, I have never really been hassled by the fact that some products sold by CWC were not supplied to them via the so called “authorised” SA distributor ………… With a local distributor adding no manufacturing value and playing mostly the role of handling agent at what is rumoured to be a substantial cost passed on to the LBS and/or it’s customers, I have never quite understood why in this era of global trade and internet sales, the concept of an authorised local distributor still exists or have any hope to survive in future ? But inevitably when price is a primary deciding factor, you get what you pay for ………… bought a Rudy Project Zuma from CWC a few months ago, it survived a minor fall intact, but with a small hairline crack on the inside. No problem, I thought – everybody tells me about the brilliant Rudy Project service, but just to make sure that I had a warrantee I phoned CWC only to be told that these helmets did not carry a crash replacement warrantee. So yes, I am very jealous of the posts complimenting ASG about good service; lesson learnt on this side – to other hubbers CHECK HELMET WARRANTEES CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU BUY grey.

Thanks Velo & tombeej - Big G, yes maybe you misunderstood my comments ? Just to reiterate - I honestly believed that all decent cylists would have had a major problem with culpable homicide behaviour like this in any form of cycling; I was therefore troubled by comments made by other hubbers which appeared to label cycling as a physically aggresive sport, which then somehow served to make this type of behaviour normal/acceptable or justified it in some way. These comments NOT MADE BY ME were "The bottom line here is that cycling at a higher level is not for sissies."/" The track is not for sissies/angels"/"Toughen the f*&k up"/"But that's what track is about"/ "Track is vicious you are soft, and shouldnt take part in any sport where there is a chance of being injured!"/"PS You guys are soft!"e.t.c So yes, I believe that this youngster and his family has had enough opportunity to "perform and reform" and should serve a very long if not indefinite ban from the sport of cycling and his behaviour should not be rewarded by inclusion into a World Squad. Big G, I think we actually agree, but even if we did not, I would not want to cloud this very specific issue with your and my personal cycling achievements, which will really never be relevant to this at all. For the record, though - I have had my fair share of spills, but have only been stretchered off in rugby and never in cycling. I am usually so far ahead of or far behind the bunch ( take your pick !)that I have no need nor sane reason to grab handelbars !

Cycling South Africa – Youth Events Dates for Cycling South Africa’s 2011 Youth Events The series planned for 2011 will consist of three events structured as follows at the following locations. Series 1 Paarl – Boland 7th – 10th April 2011 Series 2 Oudtshoorn – Southern Cape 27th June – 1st July 2011 Series 3 Gariep Dam – Free State 5th – 8th October 2011 Venues for Cycling South Africa’s 2011 Youth Events Series 1 Paarl – Boland Road Cycling – Track Cycling – MTB – BMX – Disabled Series 2 Oudtshoorn Road Cycling – MTB – Disabled – BMX Series 3 Gariep Dam Road Cycling – MTB – Disabled – BMX Each Youth event will be hosted over a minimum of three days, and will include different competitions taking place with the disciplines and age related categories. As emphasis of the Youth Events is placed on team competition and mass participation, the events are structured in such a way that points will be awarded to every participant. It is essential to understand that the vision of Cycling South Africa includes cross pollination of the youth at a young age as well as the diversification of team composition in our quest to build a well represented cycling nation. Emphasis is on youth, as such, any youngster may compete, all he/she requires is a Cycling South Africa Cyclo Sport license. Whereas there is a focus on cycling as a team sport, individuals whom through circumstance or location are unable to be included in a team or province, will still be allowed to compete in the spirit of participation.

It was known on the day of the incident that CSA would NOT take strong action; more than likely the CSA decision makers are as divided about whether the youngster's actions were right or wrong, as the many hubbers who posted here ! Looking at the various comments ( even if some were in jest ?) The bottom line here is that cycling at a higher level is not for sissies. The track is not for sissies/angels Toughen the f*&k up. But that's what track is about Track is vicious you are soft, and shouldnt take part in any sport where there is a chance of being injured! PS You guys are soft! ,I wonder what suspension, if any, would be handed down if all evidence had to be presented on the Hub and voting had to take place. There are many who still think if you replace riding ability & skill with aggression or add aggression to skills, that you will convert cycling into a really mean and nasty contact sport like cage fighting and make the cyclist seem like a really tough guy almost as if one has to compete with Bakkies Botha in the scrums. Or show the spectators that we might dress a bit funny, but for in case you don't believe it, we are really tough and dangerous "one of the main manne". CSA has got some serious political pressure here - a long or life ban would have excluded Daniels from a World Squad that is already VERY light on colour and transformation/development riders. Remember a lot of funding is via Government and Lotto and if you don't meet the criteria, you don't get the funding. Whether a youngster like this is what you want as representation at Worlds, as one of the posters remarked, is another question altogether. Below to give hubbers an insight into where CSA is going with Youth Cycling, an extract of the participation criteria that has to be met at their upcoming Youth Festival on 27 June 2011. Cycling South Africa – Youth Events Team composition Type A category (Junior Men, Junior Women and U/16 Boys) 1. 6 male cyclists, which must have a team composition of 4 cyclists from one cultural background with an additional two from a different cultural background. 2. 2 female cyclists from any cultural background. 3. If the 4 male riders are predominantly white, then the PDI riders must be of colour. 4. If the 4 male riders are predominantly of colour, then the additional 2 cyclists should be white. 5. If teams do not have the above mix of riders they will be penalized with - 50 points. Effectively it means that this team cannot win the team competition. 6. Should affiliates be unable to field a team of the correct demographics, they may still compete, but will do so as incomplete teams, and will not be eligible for the team competition. They may compete in the inter-provincial competition, but will be penalized accordingly.

onetrackmind, I can confirm that I am in not in any way involved with either Pheiffer or Daniels or their teams, families, sponsors etc. I do however have riders that compete against both and beat them, so would have derived no personal benefit by Daniels'suspension. I also have a few U16’s to which these Juniors are supposed to be role models. As such my first responsibility is towards the riders and their parents & their safety on and off the track. CSA, if they can be trusted to sort this out, comes 2nd. As aptly put by a few hubbers, NOTHING that happened before can be used as excuse – stuff is sometimes caused for no particular reason at all ……all you need is a k*k attitude and to this you add its normal bedmates – inferiority complex, parents who live through their children, a massive sense of entitlement e.t.c.. Once you have stirred these ingredients together, you add money to it – not their own money, but sponsor money, CSA money ……… I for one have a problem that my CSA license fees are used to in any way subsidise guys like Daniels. I have absolutely no problem sharing these events on a public forum such as the Hub and after first hand witnessing the entire event and it’s aftermath, also have absolutely no problem mentioning the youngster’s name and that of his family. If Daniels and his family are on the Hub, they are obviously more than welcome to join the discussion. As to him feeling grumpy, language usage restrictions prevent me from commenting! As earlier indicated, I witnessed the incident and the purpose of my posting was to create awareness, inform hubbers and stimulate a debate not so much about the incident, but rather guage the feeling of the cycling community represented on the Hub as to a suitable punishment. I was told in CT by WP team managers that CSA would, for a variety of reasons, be hesitant to act against Daniels and his vuilbek family, and I could simply not accept this; so no, I am not prepared to sit back as you put it and “let the correct processes do their thing”. I believe that I will in fact bring cycling and specifically track cycling into even bigger disrepute than this rider and his family already have, if I don’t speak up! Without sounding melodramatic, history shows that a lot of atrocities were committed, because the peaceful majority sat back and did nothing. We have numerous posts normally greeted with outrage by Hubbers, advising of cyclists knocked down by cars/taxis or MTB’s being attacked. Recently a photo of the alleged perpetrator’s caught by the Police were even posted on the Hub! I cannot remember a single post that asked us to wait for a response from the perpetrators or to cease making any comments until these guys were found guilty in a Court Of Law? Thanks Thornman, ccc2, wattsup, Mallo, Frank Tank, CyclingLegs, MTB_Roadie etc. for adding to the info – I heard that young Daniels had a bit of a reputation, but I am not from Cape Town and had no idea as to the extent thereof and how long it has already been tolerated. Yes, after viewing the footage indeed also heard that no appeal lodged by Daniels'manager – I should perhaps have added this earlier, to prevent hubbers from posting about “the other side of the story” etc. Things have already become hushed, but apparently the CSA hearing will be a disciplinary one to decide not on his guilt that many feel has been established over a period of time, but rather as to what to do with young Daniels and his family.

Bradwin raced Shane; Wayne is Shane's father. Have seen Shane race more than Bradwin, so a difficult call. Shane perhaps the better rider by a small margin, but he trains mostly on a flatter embanked 500 m track oval. Bradwin knows the Velodrome better.

Maybe I explained this badly........... I am not drawing conclusions based on three photos or my recollection of events or asking of Hubbers to look at evidence and agree or disagree with me. This has been done by experts already and will be concluded later. The track officials immediately and during the 5 day event that ended on Sunday reviewed other official video and photo footage and eyewitness accounts ( official ones - not from me; I am a team manager, not a CSA or Track Official). This is why Daniels did not take part after this and why there will be a disciplinary hearing. I simply posted the photo obtained, showing the fall - both riders(and a few others) were pushing and shoving and within certain parameters this is acceptable - certainly not "what track is about", but acceptable. Whilst the photo posted appears to show Pheiffer moving towards Daniels, remember this is a 42 degrees embanked track, with Daniels positioned above Pheiffer. The movement towards Daniels and the bike already at a bad lean angle with front wheel off the concrete is shown in other footage as being directly as result of a heavy pull/tug on the handlebars.

OK

TNT, I saw the accident happen from a distance of about 10 metres away and realised that serious injury e.g. brain damage could easily have occurred - "tongue in cheek" from anyone was therefore never going to be a response I enjoyed or found appropriate, given the circumstances. So yes, will get my panties in a bunch about it, which is sort of the whole point of the post, don't ya think? As to why others have not sorted him out - he is apparently a talented rider, so no doubt has a fan club including his parents and family who all seem quite involved in WP Cycling circles. Then there is the CSA angle .............. With all this talent it is hard to imagine why he seems to have had the need to build up a bad reputation for himself. I am pretty sure he had the talent to beat no 60 fair and square. Another explanation offered by bystanders was that him and his parents come from poor and badly disadvantaged backgrounds, where with limited education the only way they knew how to get things or achieve something, was to fight

Yeah, sure no 60 and his family will agree; even more so if he cracked his skull open ............. just a racing incident

check out official photographer's home page http://www.digitalpros.co.za/index.html

Think people only get taken out in traffic ! Not true ! This spectacular picture taken at recent SA Track Champs in Bellville show rider 60, Shane Pheiffer’s handlebar being grabbed by rider 65, Bradwin Daniels, after some bumping and shoving. The result was, as intended, a pretty serious high speed fall from which Pheiffer was extremely fortunate to walk away with only a broken collar bone. Daniels was disqualified from the race and not allowed to take part in the rest of the proceedings, pending a disciplinary hearing which might result in a 6 month ban. Many race officials & riders feel that a lifetime ban should be handed down. Daniels, who at the tender age of Junior, is well known in Western Cape cycling circles for unsportmanslike behaviour - him + his extremely vocal family, throughout the rest of the championships protested and objected to being unfairly treated and victimised and even tried playing the race card. This youngster and his family suffer from a major entitlement syndrome ! It is believed that Daniels is as development rider financially “assisted” ( read:sponsored)by CSA, so all licensed riders are in effect subsidising this little d$%%s and his family. There is a possibility that this matter might be “swept under the carpet”, so what better place than the Hub to expose this sort of behaviour! Track cyclists might even ask hubbers to assist by petitioning CSA to ask for at least a lifetime ban - we have enough scum on the road, we don't need any on the track!

You make an interesting point! However stupid it sounds, some businesses work that way. It can also happen the other way around - many banks offer better deals e.g. finance rates to new customers to entice them to leave their current bank. You would think it would make more sense to look after existing "loyal" clients a bit better?

How does this look ? No helmet, no helmut !

Helmet = headgear vs. Helmut = german name ............ 1 cyclist vs. 3-4 cyclists Already comments on this post are busy going off topic very quickly and we have two groups posting - one group that picked up on the different meanings caused by bad spelling and are having fun with it and another group blissfully unaware of it ! Come on guys, lets pick up on the spelling and literacy levels; motorists already hate us, lets not alienate the cycling community any further by portraying us as illiterate !

Scientology is a difficult religion to summarize. Scientology has gained popularity due to some Hollywood celebrities who have embraced it. Scientology was founded in 1953 by fiction author L. Ron Hubbard, just four years after he made the statement, “I'd like to start a religion—that's where the money is.” That is where he found wealth, also—Hubbard became a multi-millionaire. Scientology teaches that mankind is an immortal being (called a Thetan) not originally from this planet, and that man is trapped by matter, energy, space, and time (MEST). Salvation for a scientologist comes through a process called ”auditing,” whereby ”engrams” (basically, memories of past pain and unconsciousness that create energy blockage) are removed. Auditing is a lengthy process and can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. When all engrams are finally removed, the Thetan can once again control MEST instead of being controlled by it. Until salvation, each Thetan is constantly reincarnated. Scientology is a very expensive religion to pursue. Every aspect of Scientology has some sort of fee associated with it. This is why Scientology's “pews” are filled only with the wealthy. It is also a very strict religion and very punitive against those who would try to leave behind its teachings and membership. Its “scriptures” are limited solely to the writings and teachings of L. Ron Hubbard.

Eugene, here in our neck of the woods in PE the MTBikers and Roadies co-exist in relative peace with each other, but it would seem that there is a bit of apartheid that almost translates into a bit of unfriendliness between Roadies and the TT/Triathlon guys. Just my imagination ?

+1 Prepsol. Paraffin is a great cleaner, but due to its chemical composition ALWAYS leaves a slight oily film behind. This creates more fling off with wet or dry lubes as the oiliness prevents the lube from settling/"bonding" on chains and cassettes. On motorbikes chains, water soluble products e.g. Prepsol, Kleengreen or isopropyl alcohol based cleaners ( same stuff that were used by electronic repair shops to clean video machine heads) have gained popularity as it forms a better base for lubes to be applied to.

Good one - relationshit .......... sort of really gets the point accross !