aquaratza

I ride, on average, 7-10 hours per week. I've averaged a monthly elevation gain of 9000m for the last 9 months - this excludes this month's eBike rides. I haven't done an FTP test in some time, but based on my normal rides (I ride with a power meter on my normal bike) intervals.icu estimates I have an FTP of 328w currently. I weigh 93kg at present (ergh) - so my power/weight ratio isn't great. I have reasonable strength but I lack technical handling skills, I'm super scared of any kind of speed (CTCT/road) and I'm just generally a conservative rider because I don't want to be hospitalised - so I take it easy, mostly I'm internally still a bit undecided as to whether or not the purchase of an eBike was a good idea. I love the technological aspects of it (I'm hoping to attach a CANBus logger soon!) and I think it's helped my confidence in technical obstacles (I now have a better idea of exactly what's needed to get over something). It's also great having the ability to get home quickly when necessary (I ride to the trails). But it isn't all perfect - I can really only justify riding it with a subset of friends or on my own and it does defuse the personal achievement aspect of riding a course. Have to be careful to not be lazy when riding it. It's an experiment

I took my bike up there today and yes the nose does lift a little occasionally ahahahahahhaa, but nothing troublesome. I usually get off on the concrete slab on my normal bike

I recently came to own an eBike. It isn't a scrambler, very few of them are (the Greyp bikes are an exception and aren't really bicycles). My bike nominally outputs 250w, which is less than what I can manage. So, in terms of feel, it's just a normal bike with a bit of a boost. If you want to climb something steep and/or technical you still have to put in effort, the bike won't do it on its own. My bike is heavy and so requires a lot more wrangling than my normal bike. Hope that helps.

or perhaps experience hahaha

haha , I was in Australia a while back and I was riding a fairly steep trail through a forest. I landed up buckling my rear wheel on the downhill portion (dual suspension bike), so yeah, it was rof. A guy on a gravel bike overtook me when I stopped at the highest point. No idea what happened to him. I would have paid to see that downhill run . Saw a gravel bike during 2019's TransBaviaans too...

This topic seems a little outdated Do 29" wheels belong on the mountain? lol @ "on the mountain"

Your signature is "Do not allow the skepticism to kill the initiative", which is pretty ironic It's definitely not a motorbike. I think it's a different sport but still cycling - like the difference between track cycling and road cycling, or downhill vs cross country. I'm discovering that there are a lot of nuances to it. Like, if you want to do a long ride over hills/mountains (as I do), you can't bomb around in turbo mode, you'll just run out of battery. You have to think tactically about power usage. You also have to think ahead a lot more than a non-eBike; there's a power transfer latency, so if you're heading into something that requires a speed reduction you have to pre-empt it. If you want to change gears you have to pre-empt the gear change so that there's enough time to reduce power to the drivetrain. My bike is heavy (almost double the weight of my normal bike), so the handling dynamics are very different, particularly on more downhill-oriented trails. And I definitely haven't slouched on any of the rides I've done so far. Garmin indicates those rides are on-par with normal rides and often slightly more intense.

I thought I might do a follow-up in case some of my cultural learnings help anyone. I've come to own a 2017 Specialized Alloy Turbo Levo. Originally I was thinking of getting something new and carbon, but after much research it seemed like carbon wasn't worth the cost (at least for me)... and something second hand had the benefit of being both cheaper and hackable. It's on my todo list to snoop on the battery comms. The bike's in great condition. I took it for a ride, it was perfect except for a creaking noise which sounded like dodgy pivot bearings. I took it to the local Specialized agent, "Pro" service, still creaked. I took the motor covers off and found a motor-mount nut had come off and slid between the motor and the frame. I put it back in place with Loctite, creaking gone. Lesson #1 you should be prepared to do your own servicing I asked in the thread if eBikes emit rider power data (as in rider power data, like a normal power meter). In the case of a 2017 Turbo Levo, the answer is yes, they do emit rider power data. Despite it's weight (23.5kg), the bike is very rideable when turned off. Despite it's age the motor is quieter than a 2019 Giant Trance E... it also seems to be more powerful. My bike didn't come with a handlebar remote, but Neil from EBikeAdventures sold me a wireless Garmin unit... it seems to work reasonably well. It is possible to retrofit the 2018 wired Levo remote to a 2017 frame, but blergh, more cables? The bike integrates really well with a Garmin Edge 530. Loads of data fields are exposed, like battery as a percentage, cadence, power meter data, assistance mode, etc. I haven't checked everything. This doesn't require any third-party apps on the Edge 530. The bike competes favourably against my friend's 2020 Carbon Turbo Levo S-Works with a 700Wh battery. It appears that the technology really hasn't advanced that much. Maybe the response latency is better, but they both climb the hill. For longer rides I got an extension battery installed today by Neil from EBikeAdventures. He did a really good job of installing it. I still have the original wiring harness/Rosenberger plug. Neil made a small hole in the top motor cover. The covers can be fairly easily replaced, so I'm not fussed. This brings the bike's power supply up to ~750Wh. Finally, and this is another awesome/scary thing Neil showed me: the battery control interface isn't waterproof on these bikes! Which is crazy. Turns out my battery has had some water leak into it already, so I'm going to seal this up asap. The control membrane is easily removed using bare fingers. Replacement bearings are available for the motors from Performance Line Bearings, but Neil also stocks them. The motors do seem to experience water ingress fairly easily, despite the fancy gasket.

Rule 5 as in Velominati rule 5?

ah okay cool, was just wondering

Cool photos ChrisF. "uhm ja .... LOTS of videos on EMBN about which motor is best .... typically around 80 to 90 N.m torque." I've seen that number of 90 N.m. a fair bit, even on older Specialized bikes (2017). I would expect to see efficiency as the big improvement (it probably is as the power conditioning roughly moves in step with computer advancements). "I realised I had 13 minutes to get off the Traverse !!" I've been in that same situation, but at the Dairy Shed at Conties ahahahaha. I climbed parallel to the Black Rhino trail and exited Oatlands with 2 minutes to spare whooops . I had to go over the hill as my home was on the other side. Very interesting @ motors. Do you know if the firmware update made transitions smoother? @Power meter: eish, I should have said power meter as in a normal bicycle power meter (tells you how many watts you are producing). This is useful because power meters are a good absolute reference as to whether or not you're getting stronger and more efficient (when in context with HR). I currently use spider-based power meters that log to my bicycle computer. Does your Giant integrate with your bicycle computer? If so what kind of metrics do you see? "must admit, I have wondered about the "limits" .... if you de-restrict it, how far can you go, how fast can you go (well this one is easy as you spin out at 40'ish...), more importantly, if you GUN it, how long will the motor last ..... not lessons I want to learn on a new bike, after voiding the warranty ....." *Generally* stuff like this has a sweet spot, where it's very efficient. Usually there's an efficiency loss outside of the nominal operating range, exacerbated by temperature increases. Less of an issue on trails but drag also increases at a non-linear rate with speed, which is why aerodynamics on the trail aren't that important but are hugely important in road cycling. Driving an eBike above the speed limit would chow battery faster by virtue of disproportionately increased drag, increased heating on the switching components, etc. I assume, I don't know

Yes haha. It seems to be a different sport to a degree due to the nuances associated with battery management (on longer rides). Greater than 250w assistance continuously over 2 hours is a serious advantage, but naturally not competitively permissible/useful. My friend used 60% (!!!) of his 750Wh battery on our first ride together (3 hours), which pleased me greatly. That's 150W of continuous assistance. I remember watching people during the MTB Challenge cruising up the hills at silly speeds. I *also* remember passing some eBikes where it seemed like the riders had run out of battery haha. The skills asymmetry is often obvious at single-track obstructions (particularly during the last Houw Hoek Tour). Maybe @ keeping up with the Jones. You raise a valid point. I guess I don't want to be in a position where I miss out, whether due to not feeling well or simply being incapable due to not having assistance. It's a dangerous debate to get into but there's at least one person in our informal group who rides a normal bike who thinks that eBikes are the future. He may just be paving the way for himself . I think eBikes are fundamentally different to normal bikes, so I don't think they'll replace normal bikes entirely, but I can also see a potential future where they do largely replace normal bikes. Who knows. One could say there's honour in doing it yourself, but is that enough? I think it'd just be useful to have the option of an eBike. On more reflection I think, for me, getting something older will probably be a fun hacking project and be sufficiently assistive to level the field, not to mention relatively cheap. It doesn't have to perform wildly, just adequately and I'll put in the rest.

Hey ChrisF Thank you for the in-depth post. I read it all Very useful insights regarding the motors; how similar are the Yamaha and Bosch motors in terms of performance? What kind of advancements have been made in the last 3-4 years in the motor technology? Does your bike behave like a power meter (does it tell you how much power you're outputting)? I'm not set on Specialized, it's just what I know. I like the look of the Giant Trance and it's definitely an option. You've raised some great points. It's funny you mentioning speed cut out. I outrun my friend on the downhill (Vissershok outside Hillcrest) because his bike abruptly stops assisting at 32 km/h I think. Such fun ahaha. But I'm not in it for speed, happy with the existing assistance levels, although I am also an avid "hacker" and taking it apart would be fun - one of the benefits of getting something out of warranty . The cheap Chinese aftermarket kits are super programmable but a bit bleh. "yes, you will get some interesting remarks along the trails .... it is part of owning an ebike. Mostly I make sure to pass people slowly, and great them .... minimal issues this way." I've been on the analog end of this, although haven't made remarks. I always greet people anyway. I've been in instances where I've put in everything to stop someone overtaking me and when they eventually do I realise it's an eBike ahahahaha. I also vividly remember being overtaken by eBikes during the MTB Challenge in February. I may come back with some more questions. Your bike looks great, nice colour, I know that route well. Thanks again!

haha yeah, that's a concern . I ride with a group of friends on normal bikes regularly and I am stronger than all of them - an eBike would be counterproductive there. I don't think an eBike would go down well in that group

Help me understand? I ride for fitness and social. I'm not planning on getting rid of my existing bike, I just figure I should have the option of joining eBike rides and be able to keep up.

I recently discovered an old friend had moved into my area. He's always been an avid cyclist, so we've been getting together for some awesome rides around Durbanville. He has both a *normal* bike and a very high-spec Specialized eBike. When he's on a *normal* bike the ride is long and decent and comfortable for me... but when he's on his eBike, even with it on the eco mode, it's a hard workout. This isn't bad, in fact it's great, but I'm not always capable of doing that kind of ride and part of me thinks that perhaps it's time for an eBike. I don't expect him to ride his normal bike (if you've got it, flaunt it) and I feel like the time is coming where if I want to ride with people I may need to have the option of an eBike. There's no way I'd be able to keep up with an eBike if the rider went for it. My multiple personalities don't all agree that an eBike is a good idea, but that's a whole story on its own. In the Specialized range, a reasonable crossover of price/value seems to be the non-SL aluminium Turbo Levo. They've got 500Wh batteries, which seems substantial, especially if combined with an addon water-bottle battery, something *like* this one from the classifieds: https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-mountain-e-bikes/419663/2020-specialized-turbo-levo The one above is bleh though because it is fitted with a SRAM NX 11 speed (!?) cassette, which seems crazy. So the question is: - If I currently ride a carbon fibre dual-suspension normal bike (around 13kg in weight, I'm around 89 kg = 103 kg all up) and can produce 250w comfortably and continuously, would a Specialized Alu eBike (non-SL) level the field when riding with other eBikes? A 250w eBike at maximum output, plus 250w from me is 500w over two hours, which is decent, but that's going into extra weight: Alu non-SL is ~21kg, so all up weight of 110kg aka extra 100% power at an extra 10% of the weight. And then there's also the question of second-hand vs new; one seems to save around R 20k on the latest bikes if you go second-hand. But I think this kills the warranty? I suppose this is about accessibility and leveling the playing field. Thanks!

Today at Contermanskloof (top of Oatlands). No photographic treatment #nofilter. Meerendal a few days ago. Joyous to ride through ???? MOAR FLOWERS

My Fenix 3 HR is awesome - it works well. I also own a 5x. The only things that irritate me in use of the 3 vs the 5 are that emojis don't render and some apps (Telegram) give a summary of unread messages instead of the actual message. It's impressive that Garmin still supports the Fenix 3.

If anyone's interested, probably more a geek topic, but I took my RAK Wireless 7200 out yesterday for a little ride around the Durbanville trails. It's a very basic device with an embedded GPS and LoraWAN 868MHz radio transmitter. The graphed output from the tracker is first and below it is the same ride from Strava: The RAK7200 is a $39.50 device (around R 900) and the radio service itself is free (relies on community maintained nodes that are part of "The Things Network"). For radio-people TTN is like APRS, but new. Coverage on the trails could be expanded with two extra gateways (maybe at Bloemendal and Contermanskloof) - but the coverage already seems to be fairly good. It looks like there's a gateway on the Tygerberg hills. Each gateway is around R 2k. I haven't tested battery life on the tracker yet. The device is small enough to fit in my bike's frame or under the saddle. ^on the left is the RAK unit and on the right a Garmin inReach Mini (very cool, cheapest reasonable plan for the Garmin is around R 250 p/m (ex setup) and has unlimited 10-minute tracking points)

Vitality is worthwhile if you're clever about exploiting it, careful about reading the T&C's and are a family/not just one person.

I just tried it. I used a Garmin Edge 520 as the target device. The input file was a .fit file from a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt. Garmin Connect is happy with it.

I used to upload Wahoo-generated rides to Garmin Connect to get Vitality points. It's labourous but it works. You have to grab the non-Garmin fit file and upload it to fitfiletools.com and use the "Device Changer" function to make it look like a Garmin device. You then re-upload it to Garmin Connect and then Discovery will award you the points for it. It's dodgy... but nowhere near as dodgy as what some of my friends do. At least my workout data was real .

It's cool that you've tried something outside of the mainstream. Garmin needs competition. Your photos and review also show off the device nicely. The display is very colourful and I like the presence of sensor battery indicators. I started with a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt, then switched to a Wahoo Roam. I bought a used Garmin Fenix 3 for running when Strava killed sensor functionality. It blew me away (especially for an oldish device). I sold the Roam and now have a Garmin bicycle computer. I feel kind of bad for buying Garmin (and not supporting an underdog like Wahoo), but eh, I like it and I use both the remote control, headlight and radar. The Lezyne's look great though, I wouldn't mind trying one just to #have_all_the_things. Hammerhead anyone? haha

LoRaWAN has potentially good coverage and there are a number of gateways already set up for it. There should be some coverage on the trails. I'll take my tracker out again soon and see what the coverage is like. SigFox has a monthly fee afaik and you can't set up your own gateways unlike LoRa, which is free and a community effort. I personally use my phone + Garmin and I bought an inReach tracker for TransBaviaans. I haven't had a chance to test it due to covid :| I like all the things!

It sounds like LoRaWAN? I've been trying out a portable tracker made by Rak Wireless contract and GSM free (use 868MHz). I even set up a gateway on my home to help with coverage. They're cool but the coverage isn't great. There's also the Garmin inReach, which isn't GSM based but is costly.