Jump to content

Odinson

Members
  • Posts

    5692
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Odinson

  1. Mousea, I've not stated that this is the case in every single farm everywhere, including your brother's. It is the standard on medium to large scale farms. Please, feel free to correct me, but please, don't just tell me anecdotes about that one farm you know.
  2. Look up the Meat Safety Act and the Animals Protection Act.
  3. The deleted part is exactly what you were asking. Is dairy and eggs conscious and where that threshold is for deciding to eat it or not. What is it you're trying to get at Patch? That 7 billion people all have their own "Pekkles"?
  4. Unfortunately, that "most of our food" is not correct. What you see in that video is SOP. SA is very poorly regulated in regards to slaughterhouses and meat production and what happens in SA slaughterhouses is the same as you saw in that video. Please take the time to watch the following: Land of Hope and Glory - it shows UK animal farming practices, a country which has very high and well regulated animal welfare practices and regulations. https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/ Then, the same for Dominion - a look into Australian animal farming. https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko Then, if you want to go to the OG, Earthlings: https://vimeo.com/209647801
  5. Valid question and one that is raised very often. First off, ALL laying hens and dairy cows are slaughtered for their flesh. Let's start with chickens. An egg may not be conscious, but the hen is. It is a product of its body. Laying hens are forced to live their lives confined in cages, never to see natural light, some have their beaks seared off with a hot blade and they are bred to lay unnaturally high numbers of eggs (~300 per year; wild hens lay ~15 eggs per year). They often suffer from prolapses and the intensification of this breeding is incredibly taxing on their bodies. So, egg production and consumption is inextricably linked to chicken slaughter. Same with cows. Milk isn't sentient, but the mother cow is. Dairy cows are continuously artificially inseminated, so that they get pregnant and start producing milk. Once the calf is born, it is taken away within hours or days and the mother cow is then put into the intense milking process. The bobby calfs are then taken to small pens and chained by the neck, to the point where they can hardly move. This is done to prevent muscle growth and hardening, so that the infant can then be slaughtered later for veal. Once the dairy cow is 'spent', she gets sent to slaughter. Cows have a natural lifespan of ~20 years. A dairy cow can go for between 4 and 6 years before her body gives in, milk production falls and she's not economically viable anymore. So, milk production and consumption is inextricably linked to brutal exploitation and slaughter. Now, about your backyard chicken. If you bought got the chicken from an industrial hatchery, she'll be laying a very high number of eggs. It would be better for you to feed the eggs back to her, allowing her to replenish lost nutrients, vitamins and so on. If you have a cow, if she is not pregnant, she will not produce milk. If she has a calf, the calf will drink from her.
  6. Was here two weekends ago. It's a dual staircase inside the Vatican.
  7. Regarding the plant posts. It's very simple. All plants have the ability to receive input from their environment and respond there to (to varying degrees). They would not have evolved without it. Some have evolved very elaborate and elegant ways to do so. That being said, again, it does not mean that they are sentient, conscious or have the capacity to have subjective experiences. Even if plants did have feelings/sentience and you truly cared about this, you too would be vegan, as a meat eater's total direct and indirect plant consumption is significantly higher than someone who is plant-based.
  8. I have and it's a fuckin' horror show. I've slaughtered a sheep with my bare hands. I've hunted. I've killed animals point blank with a rifle. That's why I know that it isn't natural and it isn't necessary. Like I've said, I've been eating animals for most of my life. I understand where people are coming from.
  9. Unfortunately, if you want to eat an animal, that animal should be violently killed. You can't humanely kill an animal that does not want to die, especially on an industrial scale.
  10. I get that. I've been a meat eater for most of my life. The thing is, there is another way. The compassion that we extend to our pets and wildlife can be extended to farmed animals too. It's a simple choice.
  11. Gen, I can't seem to find it now, but I saw that you posted that you and you're son are iron deficient. My suggestion would be to load up on dark leafy greens (spinach, kale, arugula, chard). Perhaps 2-3 portions a day, preferably not boiled to death. A neat little trick is to add lemon juice (or any plant high in Vit. C) to the greens, as it boosts absorption. An easy way is to perhaps make a green smoothie for you and Jr. in the morning and then add the other portion as a side at dinner. It's an option. Supplementation is one too. Absorption can be affected by a number of things, (gut) dysbiosis is one.
  12. I cannot accept this type of cruelty as part of my life. I refuse to have them unimaginably suffer for my pleasure. https://www.facebook.com/mercyforanimals/videos/198986484367636/ This is recent footage from Mexico. SA wouldn't be any different.
  13. Okay. Last post for now. Don't think of it as 'morals'. Go back to the original question. What traits (or characteristics) do or don't they have? Don't feel obliged to respond immediately. It gets interesting when you think about it.
  14. I'm going to sign off for a bit. Spending wayyy to much time here. I'll pick up on responses tomorrow (I think).
  15. You're right when you say that we are effectively at the top of the food chain. Our development of tools (technology) has allowed us to dominate all other species. However, the question is whether 'might is right'? Does your ability to do something make it morally justifiable to do so? Just because I can take a gun and shoot a defenseless animal, does it make it morally justifiable? Is a hijacker morally justified to steal your car, just because he can?
  16. You can, but let's keep the deflection to a minimum. Plants are not sentient and have no capacity to have subjective experiences. I can quote the The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness again if you want.
  17. I agree that we should not unfairly judge others. Every one is on their own path. This doesn't mean that we should reserve all judgment. To those who say that they have no qualms with eating animals, a question. What traits, in your opinion, do or do animals not have, that gives us the moral justification to kill them?
  18. They are. Didn't say they weren't. However, they do present certain benefits. Lower risk of viral contamination, no antibiotics, meat can be 'designed' with fewer fat cells, cruelty free etc. Will still be less health promoting than plant-based eating. Read Paul Shapiro's book 'Clean Meat: How Growing Meat Without Animals Will Revolutionize Dinner and the World'. Also, listen to Rich Roll's podcast with Bruce Friederich from the Good Food Institute: https://www.richroll.com/podcast/bruce-friedrich-402/
  19. Hey Robbie. There are a lot of meat alternatives available, that taste and look very similar to animal flesh, but does away with the cruelty, environmental damage and health implications of animal protein. In the not too distant future you'll even be able to eat real animal meat, grown in a lab, if that's you're thing.
  20. You're right. You're not going to satisfy all the people all the time. A hardcore environmentalist could also **** all over your efforts too. That being said, any level-headed person should commend significant efforts in this regard. If you're 90% plant-based, coming from 20%, that's awesome. No two ways about it.
  21. I'm very aware of a lot of vegans who have the potential to undermine the movement, take Peta and those who storm meat aisles as an example. No one in life hits all the right notes all the time. The movement has matured a lot, but also diversified a lot. So, when a very animal rights focused person talks about the topic, he/she will be focusing on the ethical aspect and maybe miss some aspects on environmental and health concerns. Take the message whence it comes.
  22. That argument is just a facetious response to internet trolls whose best smackdown of veganism is 'but canines tho'.
  23. It's more about the awareness and education. If animal agriculture was carbon neutral, then you argue the ethics of animal slaughter. However, it's more nuanced than that. Animal agriculture has significant environmental impacts, so an animal rights activist can highlight that too. Same with health. It's for each person to consider and see what resonates with them. An animal rights supporter can cut out animal products and it makes his/her cardiologist and the environmentalists happy. Same for the other combos of 'motivation'.
  24. I'm a notoriously bad shopper. So much so that my wife and I have little tiffs about me needing to put in the effort to buy new clothes. That being said, my most recent purchases were a Sea Shepherd jersey (actually a gift from my wife), which is fair-trade cotton. Bought a cotton jean, checking to make sure it doesn't have a leather patch on the hip. Some cotton socks and so on. My exercise gear is synthetic, as most are. I had some leather goods from my pre-vegan days (boots, a belt, etc.), which I've donated.
Settings My Forum Content My Followed Content Forum Settings Ad Messages My Ads My Favourites My Saved Alerts My Pay Deals Help Logout