Odinson

It is. Sustainable and quite durable. It's a big industry in Portugal. If you ever go to Madrid, cork products are being sold all over and it's amazing to see the variety of different products that can be made from it.

Gen, it's for everyone to decide for themselves. There are no 'rules'. However, for those who align themselves to the ethics of veganism, they'll avoid buying clothes that contain animal derived components. Thus, no fur and leather and other animal-based additives. You can go for fair-trade organic cotton, polyester or whatever non-animal derived material. It's about doing the best, as far as possible and practicable for you. There are vegans who go for a minimalist lifestyle and only use 2nd hand clothes and then there are vegans who can afford the latest in high-end vegan fashion. It's all down to the individual.

Nothing. There is nothing wrong with it. Bees are one of the multitude of pollinators. I posted a study on the hub, whereby the different pollinators in Mexican (world's largest avo producing country) avo orchards were assessed. Bees were some of the most ineffective pollinators, as they preferred plants growing outside of the orchards. The whole bee/avo/almond argument is an elaborate strawman.

The past two pages have really seemed to center around 'catching out the vegans'. "Oh, you eat avos. What about the bees?" "Oh, you drive a car. What about the environment?" "Oh, you wear synthetic clothes. What about the plastic?" This is classic psychology. It's a defensive response triggered cognitive dissonance. It allows someone to delegitimise the 'aggressor', so that it reduces the dissonance and allows them to continue on their way and not be faced with the possibility of having to change their habits or lifestyle. The idea is to reach a point where you can say "Ha! I've caught you out. You're a hypocrite. Therefore, I can dismiss both you and the concept of veganism and carry on my merry way. I feel better now." Let's make this clear: veganism is not the pursuit of perfection. There is no such thing. As seen on the OP - veganism is: “A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”

Yes. We've been over this before. Do a search, people. It's not on this thread, but it's on the hub.

Corrected.

Ugh. 26". I'm due for some new work/dress shoes, so I need to start looking for those. Been eyeing Noah, an Italian vegan shoes/handbags/etc. producer. Pretty snazzy looking, but somewhat dear. https://youtu.be/p1n0oSa5ru8

There's tallow in Jehova's Witnesses?! I just murdered and ate one last week! #notvegan I understand what you are trying to say. However, what you should keep in mind is that many times when folks raise their voice about these issues, it's to challenge the status quo. People feel that there is a moral and ethical impetus to look for new solutions to existing problems, where we can take animal products out of the equation.

It's for every person themselves to decide, but as a general rule, no. The 'vegan leather' industry is massive and you can get proper belts, shoes, handbags, etc. I got this beautiful Sea Shepherd card wallet just two weeks ago: Made out of cork. There's always alternatives.

It's actually very simple. People are creatures of habit. People anjoy food that is familiar to them, which perhaps they associate with hanging out with friends and family. Now, if you can have the same/similar taste from a food that doesn't necessitate raising and slaughtering an innocent animal, why wouldn't you? Also, it's a common misconception to think all vegans live on meat replacements. Personally, I'd have something like that maybe once a month. My personal favourites are: Viver 'Steak' Beyond Burger

So, because the actions of others do not align to your world view, it's okay to trivialize and mock it? What were you saying to Mousea on the Lady Pros thread about double standards? Are you not applying the same double standard here?

Yeah, it was really great when I was in Copenhagen a while back. For me, the science tells me that the only 'concern' is B12. So, I go from that perspective. Ethically, I can't justify animal exploitation, but even if we saw a ~90% meat reduction in animal consumption in countries with Western(ised) diets, we'll be making massive progress and that'll put a big smile on my face.

For those of you who think a whole food plant based diet is nutritionally deficient, read the Position of the American Dietetic Association on Vegetarian Diets: And the American Dietetic Association is by no means a pro-vegan/veggie association.

Maaaan, you're going to make me bust all of those?! Contrary to my post count, I also have some work to do. Short 'n sweet: B12: Found in nature, washed off of plant foods by producers and filtered out of drinking water. Virtually all people should be supplementing B12. Creatine: non-essential nutrient. Your body makes it - no need for dietary consumption. Carnosine: non-essential. Vit D3: get some sun. DHA: Converted by the body from ALA. Can be found in algae too. Heme-iron: psst! Non-heme iron is found in plants. Taurine: made by the body.

Spend some time on pubmed.gov and you'll see why your statement is not correct.

Boil a piece (un-'plumped') chicken and eat as is and tell me if it's 'flavourful'. I wonder with what virtually all meat is flavoured with? Again, it's a matter of perspective. I don't see animals as a 'food group', so it's not restrictive in my eyes. Cutting out all meat is bad for the human? Nope. Quite the contrary.

Good question! First off, kudos on taking your health in your own hands and making some changes. Straight off the bat, a vegan/plant-based diet should only be as difficult as you choose it to be. There are perhaps some people that want to try it out and then set difficult standards, that will be discouraging over time. It's not about the acai bowls and spirulina smoothies you'll find on IG. For me, for most of my meals I eat like a pauper. I focus on a diversity of plant foods, so lots of grains, greens (leafy and cruciferous), legumes, veggies and to a lesser extent fatty foods, like nuts, seeds and fats. These types of foods are cheap as chips and available everywhere. You'll really have to be in the sticks not to find a can of beans and some potatoes. If you're new to this type of eating and try to replicate typical meals with meat replacements, you could, depending on where you live, run into availability issues. Regarding the flavour, plants are so good, dude. Once you cut out processed foods that are loaded with sugars and salts, your palate readjusts and you'll realise just how sweet a peach or sweet potato is and how flavourful something like kale is. I think that if you're someone who eat a lot of convenience food and rarely cooks healthy food at home, a plant-based diet in somewhere like SA could be more diificult. My suggestion is to simply make healthy food at home and find nice restaurants in your area for going out. There are apps like Happy Cow that helps you find vegan or vegan-friendly restaurants or eateries. And don't sell yourself short. If you had told me 4 years ago about not eating animal products, I would've told you to GTFO of my face. Maybe try a whole-food plant-based challenge once you wrap up the pescetarian one.

Critiques of the study by Chris Kresser (an 'alternative medicine' acupuncturist who flogs non-FDA approved cholesterol lowering snake oil on his website) and an internet blogger with no tertiary education. 'Mkay.. Edit: Please link these all-meat studies.

My answer is purely on personal experiences. Is there an association? There could be in certain cases. Would that same association hold true for a majority of vegans? Who knows. Correlation ≠ causation. Drawing any type of conclusions from speculative associations is pointless.

Head on over back to the 'Awesome' thread and have a look at some of the responses to my posts. Would someone posting 'mmm, ek gaan vanaand lekker braai' in response to a photo of a rescued goat/sheep not be seen as extreme and fanatical from a vegan or vegetarian's point of view? It's all a matter of perspective. I would have to disagree with you on the 'infancy' aspect. The China–Cornell–Oxford Project was already published in the 80's, which concluded that (Chinese) counties with a high consumption of animal-based foods in 1983–84 were more likely to have had higher death rates from "Western" diseases as of 1973–75, while the opposite was true for counties that ate more plant-based foods. However, the research is now more mainstream and more widely accepted, than previously. Just take the Physicians' Committee for Responsible Medicine, who are working on evidence based nutrition to prevent, treat and reverse chronic illnesses.

I'll post some studies in due course. There's a lot of well designed studies out there. I really enjoy controlled feeding trials (which are still quite exceptional), as they can provide very valuable data, as you have strict adherence and lower attrition. Regarding dietary cholesterol, here is some good info from Dr. Michelle McMacken: Regarding the veganism/religion association, I can't say that I've heard that before and the association sounds tenuous at best. I doubt there is any real evidence to support that association. I'd think the inverse would be true. From my experience, atheism/agnosticism is very prevalent among vegans. However, the vegan/plant-based community is very diverse and adopting a vegan lifestyle does not necessitate it to be at the expense of religion, culture, etc. I'm curious, why do you call these folks "fanatical".

Veganism. So, let’s start off with what that actually means. There’s no universal definition, but the one provided by The Vegan Society offers a good perspective: “A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.” The next question would be as to why someone should adopt this lifestyle and truthfully, there is no universal answer to that. It’s for every person to decide for themselves why they want to follow this path. However, the motivations can be broadly grouped into the following three categories: 1. Ethics: Many people are of the opinion that there is no moral justification for us to exploit and kill animals if there is no extenuating circumstances or reasons for us to do so. If we can both live and thrive off of a plant-based diet, what moral justification is there then for us to harm animals? 2. Environmental concerns: An overwhelming balance of evidence supports the conclusion that animal agriculture is one of the main drivers of climate change and environmental destruction and/or degradation. 3. Health: There is an overwhelming body of good evidence that a whole food plant-rich diet or plant-based diet is both health promoting and preventative in regards to disease, especially many of the main killers, such as heart disease, stroke and certain types of cancer. Those are just some of the reasons that people may choose to adopt this lifestyle. Personally, I transitioned initially based on environmental concerns. Concern for the animals and my health came much later. Now, does veganism require you to become a ‘YouTube activist’, chain yourself to trees in a rainforest, save pigs from a slaughterhouse or only wear tie-dye shirts? Absolutely not. You can be fully disinterested in any type of activism or direct action, but at least decide to not support people and industries that exploit animals and contribute to environmental destruction. It’s that simple. I’ll dive into the different topics in detail as I have the time. If anyone would be interested, I’d also share some personal anecdotes, but that’s only n=1, so take it as such. Here are some interesting videos for those who have some time: https://youtu.be/Z3u7hXpOm58 https://youtu.be/YnQb58BoBQw I welcome debate and contrarian views. I’m not fazed by trolling, but it does detract from the discussion. If it’ll make you feel better, throw out a barb, but know that I’ve heard and seen it all before.

This isn't a 'sides' thing, dude. We're not at war. I can't control how you react to the information I post. Only you can.

We can discuss this on a separate thread soon enough. In the meantime, to keep things awesome, here's some beautiful animals to brighten your day: Dragonlord The fuzzy slug Flick Shrimp All of these animals are rescues living on Rancho Relaxo (http://www.ranchorelaxonj.org/) For those on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/boochaces/