Pantani

I dunno, I've been warned to stay away, I found a cracked helmet on my lawn this morning as well! I haven't got a bicycle at the moment but I should hopefully have one by the weekend... So hoping to be there if the bike is built in time...

And I'm saying asking a guy who is motivated by money and glory to abide by the rules is not realistic.... So you have to force them to abide!

You know what.... Guys riding open seeded, let's say L batch of a 10 000 rider event, I don't know if he is motivated to the same extent as a guy in a licensed racing category. Clearly if he was he might be in a different batch altogether. Both riders approach a dangerous corner and both know that they should keep left. Now, it is at this point that the difference arises. Many will say but it's an easy choice for both riders to obey the rules and keep left. I argue that we also need to understand the psyche of the licensed riders who are racing... So, merely saying the answer is simple and everybody should keep left isn't a solution because I don't see many licensed riders, Pro teams, team managers standing up and wanting to be counted here! Why is that???????????? It's not because they stupid????

Right... I'm out to go on a training ride... and while I'm there I'm going to practice some attacks on the wrong side of the road... You know, all licensed riders are idiots that can't act rationally because we have a sense entitlement... Whatever... For goodness sake, I'm sure as hell that every Pro in the world pays lip service to cycling safety and endorses it where they can, I somehow can see they have a problem practicing what they preach...

Well said Peleton... I repeat my call... The organisation should ban the Pro's... We have an outcry from teams, back to the table, talks, and maybe we will find a solution... In the mean time, yes, exercise your mandate as the controlling body in cycling and start by banning the Pro's. Make it clear that line crossing will not be tolerated. Thus it will be easier to enforce this rule down the ranks.

My point exactly... Ban the Pro's, and then we can weed the problem out at grass roots too.. But the fun riders need to know we mean business! Pantani2007-12-04 20:46:53

I want to race, every Elite rider out there wants to race, am I wrong in pursuing a solution? Does that warrant the label reckless and dangerous? Aren't I here providing different scenarios to get people thinking, to stimulate debate and hopefully someone involved in this sport will have a light bulb moment? Sure, safety is of paramount importance, but there is clearly a need to devise a way that racers can race to the maximum within an environment that caters for their safety. Individuals out of the racing crossing white lines is not acceptable. So, let the heckling and abuse continue, as me, I will continue to probe because I believe there is a solution, nothing is impossible, just dare to try...

Hmmm... interesting perspective... I believe we are about to witness the dynamics of situational ethics...

Groot Lem, you're old school and hardcore... Clearly come from a time when racers were racers, not fun riders... lol Remember that day when I flew past you going up Long Tom, I was going so fast I just about managed to keep my bike inside the lane on the bends... Yes, I was laying the bends on an uphill... Anyway, it would be nice to get the views of older racers, from a bygone era... Is racing racing, or was road safety foremost in their minds and hearts? Then again, they didn't ride with helmets and those who did rode with foam straps on their heads...

You can try... chances are he is still going to attack you you on the wrong side of the road, jump a red light and then come back over and spit you out!

And when racing reverts back to wet winter afternoons, and funrides are dead because you are too important to obey the rules of the road, what are you going to do for fun? There can't be two sets of rules, one for funriders and one for superheroes. Yup... and this is a great opportunity for Pro teams to come out and make their voices heard in the interests of road safety....

Maybe guys who race are more worried about being switched than knocked by an oncoming car...

lol... I just know there are people reading this now going, "but racing is racing dude!"

bump

Well, an hour has passed and the silence is deafening... The post about the cyclists crossing the white line had people venting their spleen. There was a wave of moral outrage... I'm afraid that seemingly not all of us share this sense of moral outrage, sad but true. So call me what you like, I will continue to ride my bicycle in a manner that I deem to be responsible, I will also try my very best to stick to the correct racing lines, but I am also a realist, and am all too aware that there is a world beyond that of the recreational rider where the issues of safety are non-issues so to speak... Go ahead, shoot me.... But I think the point is made! Hubbers have made their voices heard by the very lack of a voice... Pantani2007-12-04 08:11:35

OK, it's been half and hour and judging by the overwhelming response to this post all cyclists are in agreement! Nuff said...

OK, this is not a virginity pledge!

I take exception to being labeled reckless and a danger to other cyclists on the road. To me it's clear that there exists a chasm between those who race for enjoyment and those who race competitively... In the aftermath of the "Hels Hoogte" debate I see it fit to undertake to be more safety conscious next time I am out racing and endeavour to always abide by the rules of the road even if it might mean forfeiting a good result. Of course this opens me up to all sorts of scrutiny. I'm hardly a public figure yet am easily recognisable in the bunch. Are there others out there willing to follow this example and be more vocal during our racing about the dangers of not abiding by the rules of the road?

Hell no! Nonetheless, the principles remain...

I probably will but I just wish that some NEW insights would be presented, like a PRO's point of view. I appreciate you "devils advocate" approach to getting the debate going (even though your stance has fluctuated somewhat over the last 20+ pages in order to keep the temperature up). So, in a nutshell, here are my views: 1) The Elites & Pro's need to be able to participate in "no holds barred" RACING and therefore it is the responsibility of the Race Organisers to arrange appropriate safety precautions & measure etc 2) The FUNRIDERS ( the problem is where do these begin?) need to stick to the white line rule or be DQ'd. So the PRO's will having Police "front men" and rolling road closures while fun riders will have marshalls acting as "policemen" . I don't know if we are the only country in the world where the PRo's and Funriders ride together in the same race, route and day. Maybe the answer is to provide a greater time seperation between the groups. I do also think that there is a certain amount of "shirking" or responsibilty by PPa and to now place the photographers on the Hub in a difficult position is also not correct. They (PPA) should be doing the policing as well. After all - they do charge for the race/Funride!! And I to could go on and on and on and ........... I actually agree with you 100% Asking for racing doesn't mean that all racers are a law unto themselves and a danger to other road users...

Yip.....clever argument there....."you are stupid and thus you deserve to die". If applied' date=' should the half of humanity not be killed? [/quote'] Bwahahahaha.... lol...

Yes, but do you see them here? Nope. Why? because they can't understand why we're having this argument... They are operating on a different value system to the recreational rider, to you, to me...

I think what is obvious is that amongst the cycling fraternity there are people who participate in this sport but have very different value systems. When I go out on my bike in the morning I have respect for the world. Am I a good, law abiding citizen? I like to think so. When I go to a race and have entered a "racing category" then for all intents and purposes I am there for a race! I abide by the rules of the road too. Conditions might arise where I am forced into a position where I can no longer abide by these rules. Therefore the onus is upon me to withdraw myself from these positions and attempt to make my way to a place that is within the rules of the road. If for some reason I am unable to carry this out because I'm sitting in the middle of the bunch then i would like to think that the race organisers have sufficient experienced to surveyed the route, identified the places where this sort of situation might arise, and have implemented some precautionary measures to ensure that some semblance of control is maintained. There are many role players who need to work together to make racing, as well as recreational cycling safe. I don't think it's fair to lambaste the licensed rider who crosses the line when clearly there are forces and situation that arise that will negate their ability to act independent of a bunch. having said that, the lone cyclist who crosses the line is at fault and I know we all don't want to fall foul of the law and try our best to remain within it's grace...