Maltodextrin as energy source

[Christopher Brunsdon]

I mix it with an old washing detergent scoop (250ml i think..) in a 2:1 volume mix, i.e. Full cup malto, half cup fructose in 750ml bottle. I did a 5h ride on sat on just one bottle. I guess if you want to go all out you'll need a good kitchen scale and go for say 50-60g total mix per hour and set your drinking schedule accordingly..

 

You can source scales a clicks for R200 odd bucks. My wife uses them in her business as she needs to weigh her products (powders) by the gram. A 5g variance scale is too off but 2g are near perfect.

 

And no, my wife is not a drug dealer, she sells more addictive services to her clients - she is a hair stylist specializing in colour.

[Christopher Brunsdon]

some advice ;-), instead of the fructose with the MD, try 32Gi mixed with it, as fructose does not peak at all it tapers off, with the isomaltulose carb we use in 32Gi combined with MD you will get a nice peak and it will taper u off for longer than fructose :-) we have a non-flavoured/neutral flavour if u r worried about taste blends. This will also give you a 2 way digestive method. ....

 

OK, then by how much do you then increase the cost of the muti mix? The whole idea behind AJ muti is how cheap it is.

[MDW]

Hi Jaco to be honest I am overseas and have not seen the article yet. I would have to read it to understand the angle and fairly comment.

 

In general the biggest issue people have with low GI is this:

It does not release quickly enough :-), and when they say that then I know they have not clue about 32Gi :-) because the carbohydrate we use actually releases immediately, and it sustains the release over hours. There are no carbohydrates which are low GI that release immediately and then also provide the long sustainability, and this is the issue. There is a lot of talk about low GI and high GI, but you need to understand how the carbohydrate actually breaks down in the system, exactly how it behaves and what it does.

 

To date we have over 100 professional athletes using our product, not all South African some really top international athletes, and they continue to perform on the product constantly, so its not only about science its about the market feedback and what our athletes are experiencing. Yes high GI has its place, it always will, but there is a time and place for everything, its why we introduced the chews and also why were r bringing in a sustainable gel soon and a advanced drink.

 

Each to their own, but the world of nutrition is changing and its continuing to change, new and innovative products, and supplements are coming out all the time. In actual fact in the US at the moment we have seen a huge trend towards our direction in some of the large corporates and its very interesting to see how they are bringing out new products and blending them.

 

Nothing replaces good solid nutrition, and a supplement is never a miracle, if you look at some of the fastest marathon runners in the world, some of them have run those times on water alone ;-). Interesting food for thought:-)

 

will read the article when i return, and give u my opinion,

 

all the best

Mark

[b-unit]

some advice ;-), instead of the fructose with the MD, try 32Gi mixed with it, as fructose does not peak at all it tapers off, with the isomaltulose carb we use in 32Gi combined with MD you will get a nice peak and it will taper u off for longer than fructose :-) we have a non-flavoured/neutral flavour if u r worried about taste blends. This will also give you a 2 way digestive method.

 

 

 

How so? Fructose has a Gi of 23.

Edited April 6, 2011 by b-unit

[MDW]

How so? Fructose has a Gi of 23.

Fructose actually has a Gi of 19 ;-), the problem with fructose is it does not release immediately, it has to go through the liver and then get broken down into glucose before it comes into action. Also if you actually to a response test with fructose you will see you dont get a peak only a drop.

32Gi actually has a low GI as well, BUT, you get the immediate release of glucose, PLUS the breakdown of Fructose in the process = 2 for 1, try it you will see, we have experimented a lot with these types of mixes over the past few years.

One more thing is its known that fructose can caused liver impedance, its not the healthiest of sugars and i would avoid it in large doses.

Edited April 6, 2011 by MDW

[b-unit]

Thanks for the explanation!

[Tieffels]

 

One more thing, Maltodextrin on its own is a shocker, it spikes like nothing on this planet, so be wary because when it wears off if you dont feed frequently and miss a feed, u will drop like a bomb from where u will really battle to recover :-)

 

I've bonked once or twice on Malto so speak from experience. The worse was coming into Oakvalley on last years Epic, having just gone over Groenlandberg a couple of km's back. It was this little nondescript hill, say 200m long. About 30m in I could feel something was wrong, about 30m later I was swerving across the road as my legs deserted me. Dead as a Dodo. What did I do you ask? Grab my bottle of 32GI you hope? Hardly. Downed some more Malto and a Mulebar and all the other food I had on me, crested the hill somehow, bombed the short downhill of the back and wow and behold by the next climb a couple of minutes later I was powering away again. Kapow! As if nothing had happened.

 

If 3 minutes is battling to recover then yes, guilty as charge.

 

But I can tell you about the 3h of absolute battling I endured at the hands of 32GI during the Magoebaskloof MTB race last year. Because I've been warned by you and the other hubbers of the 32GI marketing club about negating the affect by combining 32GI with high GI intakes I avoided all other sweet stuff. And since it gives you 2h of sustained energy why worry. After the start of the race I felt pretty flat, and then like fructose (apparently) slowly tapered off to even greater flatness and then tipped over into all round uselessness. After 3h I gave up and at the next waterpoint drowned myself in Coke. Best thing I've ever done. After that I was loving it. I also suspect that I suffered unnecessarily at the Clarens Ultra because we had 32GI at the water table instead of the usual Coke or Energade..

 

But as far as hangover cures go, nothing touches 32GI. I’m onto my second tub.

 

As far as riding goes: If 32GI works for you, you’re going too slow. But that is just my opinion.

[Guest agteros]

To date we have over 100 professional athletes using our product, not all South African some really top international athletes, and they continue to perform on the product constantly, so its not only about science its about the market feedback and what our athletes are experiencing. Yes high GI has its place, it always will, but there is a time and place for everything, its why we introduced the chews and also why were r bringing in a sustainable gel soon and a advanced drink.

 

How many of these top professional athletes were punting Power balance bracelets a few months ago?

 

32GI is a sponsor for a lot of these athletes (or their teams), right?

[Guest agteros]

I've bonked once or twice on Malto so speak from experience. The worse was coming into Oakvalley on last years Epic, having just gone over Groenlandberg a couple of km's back. It was this little nondescript hill, say 200m long. About 30m in I could feel something was wrong, about 30m later I was swerving across the road as my legs deserted me. Dead as a Dodo. What did I do you ask? Grab my bottle of 32GI you hope? Hardly. Downed some more Malto and a Mulebar and all the other food I had on me, crested the hill somehow, bombed the short downhill of the back and wow and behold by the next climb a couple of minutes later I was powering away again. Kapow! As if nothing had happened.

 

If 3 minutes is battling to recover then yes, guilty as charge.

 

But I can tell you about the 3h of absolute battling I endured at the hands of 32GI during the Magoebaskloof MTB race last year. Because I've been warned by you and the other hubbers of the 32GI marketing club about negating the affect by combining 32GI with high GI intakes I avoided all other sweet stuff. And since it gives you 2h of sustained energy why worry. After the start of the race I felt pretty flat, and then like fructose (apparently) slowly tapered off to even greater flatness and then tipped over into all round uselessness. After 3h I gave up and at the next waterpoint drowned myself in Coke. Best thing I've ever done. After that I was loving it. I also suspect that I suffered unnecessarily at the Clarens Ultra because we had 32GI at the water table instead of the usual Coke or Energade..

 

But as far as hangover cures go, nothing touches 32GI. I’m onto my second tub.

 

As far as riding goes: If 32GI works for you, you’re going too slow. But that is just my opinion.

 

I've had the same experience. AND ... I'm not the only one. Other people (cyclists) agreed that 32GI will work if you go at a low intensity (aka training ride), but at racing pace it just does not release enough energy fast enough.

 

My cycling coach has told me (after discussing this stuff) that they've received a lot of complaints from their cyclists who've used it in races. Make you wonder who to trust, the people who are putting their money, hearts (and training) on the line, or those with a vested interest in a product.

 

Isomaltulose(32GI) is nothing but an artificial sugar derived from cane sugar, and the first thing the coach (post grad qualification in physiology, as well as qualifications in the nutritional arena) told me is to stay away from artificial sugars due to the unknown carcinogenic affects of these. Regarding artificial sugars, I've had the same advice from a registered dietician.... Food for thought, or not?

 

 

 

Anyway, enough of this.. back to professor Asker Jeukendrup (http://www.sportex.b...eukendrup.shtml) and his cheap energy drink

 

 

Extract from the above link about the professor:

 

MSc (Maastricht, The Netherlands) PhD (Maastricht, The Netherlands), FACSM, Registered Sport and Exercise Nutritionist

(FACSM = Fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine)

 

 

Research Interests

 

- Fat metabolism during exercise

- Carbohydrate metabolism during exercise

- The interaction between carbohydrate and fat metabolism

- Biochemical adaptations to training

- Exercise, obesity and metabolism

- Overtraining

- Ergogenic effects of nutrition supplements

and since a lot of cyclists think that everything cycling is unique in the world, from the same link again (NOt sure if he still is, but at least he was at some point):

 

"In addition to this

Asker is also training and nutrition consultant

to several top athletes in Europe, UK Athletics and

to the

Rabobank professional cycling team.

In his spare time Asker tries to manage his training for Ironman distance triathlons."

Edited April 6, 2011 by agteros

[chris_w_65]

I've had the same experience. AND ... I'm not the only one. Other people (cyclists) agreed that 32GI will work if you go at a low intensity (aka training ride), but at racing pace it just does not release enough energy fast enough.

 

 

And water works just as well on training rides if you have some fat you can afford to burn

[Jaco-fiets]

@ MDW: They are questioning your source of carb not the fact that its low GI. When you come back pls take a look at the article. I would like your response.

 

On the 32GI side. I only bonked once using 32GI in a race. Other than that all my best races was with 32GI and they are all basically back to back.

 

Im picking up all my stock needed to make my mix tomorow. There is a mountain bike race 16 April and i'll try it in the race. High intensity riding gives the best idea if a mix works or not. My race aproach will be like this:

 

In my 750ml water bottle i'll add 50grams of product (dont want a big concentration). This 50grams will consist of:

17grams Maltodextrose

17grams Vitargo (maybe i leave this out and do 34grams malto but keep vitargo as pre race drink to top up those glycogen stores quickly)

16 grams Fructose

3grams table salt

 

My breakfast would be:

60grams raw oats

20grams whey protein

100ml skimmed milk

 

1hr before race i'll sip a 500ml bottle containing the same concentration as my 750ml race bottle. I'll use hammer gels during ride too. I changing from Whasp since Dischem wont be stocking them anymore because of endless issues from supplier

Edited April 6, 2011 by Jaco-fiets

[MDW]

@ MDW: They are questioning your source of carb not the fact that its low GI. When you come back pls take a look at the article. I would like your response.

 

On the 32GI side. I only bonked once using 32GI in a race. Other than that all my best races was with 32GI and they are all basically back to back.

 

Im picking up all my stock needed to make my mix tomorow. There is a mountain bike race 16 April and i'll try it in the race. High intensity riding gives the best idea if a mix works or not. My race aproach will be like this:

 

In my 750ml water bottle i'll add 50grams of product (dont want a big concentration). This 50grams will consist of:

17grams Maltodextrose

17grams Vitargo (maybe i leave this out and do 34grams malto but keep vitargo as pre race drink to top up those glycogen stores quickly)

16 grams Fructose

3grams table salt

 

My breakfast would be:

60grams raw oats

20grams whey protein

100ml skimmed milk

 

1hr before race i'll sip a 500ml bottle containing the same concentration as my 750ml race bottle. I'll use hammer gels during ride too. I changing from Whasp since Dischem wont be stocking them anymore because of endless issues from supplier

I could let u do that but then I would be not very helpful, in assisting you and if you want to get the best effect, rather dont start drinking that bottle before the race. You want to keep your pre-race meals as low GI as possible so as to not spike you before the start, what you are mixing will take u into a high GI range, rather use it during the race and not before :-) all the best

Mark

PS: Who wrote the article by the way?

Edited April 6, 2011 by MDW

[MDW]

OK, mmm, there has been a lot of comments made here which are not actually true.

 

@ChickenRun, you might have suffered at Clarens,but I have tons of compliments from MTB's who actually had an amazing experience on the product. I think you will find anyone who has a bad experience will blame what they took in. In all honesty lets face it, your daily nutrition and training regime is most important when it comes to racing. 32Gi wont get you out of a bonk its not possible, but its there to stabilise you and assist in preventing you from bonking. Secondly, if I analysed your race nutrition and training and took a look at what you took in leading up to the race, before and during, I would pick up the reasons for a bad run.

Taking in high GI with 32Gi is NOT a bad thing, so I dont know why people say that, our drink still tapers off the spike effect, and stabilises you. Most athletes I have spoken to who have a bad experience on the product made many key mistakes, many, especially taking in too little calories on an event where they needed a higher intake. You cannot race on 32Gi alone and we have stressed that many times, its why we have the chews on the market, its race fuel.

 

@Ageteros, the athletes that use our product are not paid to use it, or asked to endorse it. If we get approached by an athlete for sponsorship, I insist on them testing it, and using it, before we look at brining them on board, because I want an athlete that the product works for and not one taking it for the sake of it, its that simple, and I am very strict on that. I take a lot of time to work with the athletes, understand their diet, training regimes and race fuel, its not as simple as just saying we will give you product and u brand yourself and give us exposure. Its about feedback and honesty when it comes to using the product. I want to know if my athletes needed to take a gel, when they took, what they ate before the race and during and all this data is collected, collated analysed. 32Gi is not the b all and end all of nutrition, it is however an amazing stabiliser.

 

OK, next thing, your coach who says that our carb is an artificial sweetener does not know what he is talking about. I can also throw degrees at you, I have 2 degrees, 2 masters and can go on, but thats not whats important. What is important is the facts around isomaltulose which are:

 

What is isomaltulose?

Isomaltulose is NOT an artificial sweetener at all. It is a carbohydrate like e.g. sucrose, fructose or maltodextrin. You can find it in honey or sugar cane juice, and it is made from sugar (sucrose). It is not artificial.

Like sucrose, isomaltulose consists of a glucose and a fructose. Only the linkage is different (isomaltulose has an alpha-1,6 linkage also known from starch, sucrose an alpha 1,2 linkage), which gives isomaltulose physiological benefits, e.g. it is kind to teeth, it is fully digestible providing the full 4 calories of carbs, but it has a lower effect on blood sugar levels and so provides this energy in a more balanced way over longer time.

 

Isomaltulose and intolerances to fructose or starch

There are very few individuals are intolerant to fructose by an inherited enzyme defect which does not allow them to metabolize fructose in the liver , and those people need to avoid sources of fructose in their diet. Individuals who lack the enzyme isomaltase are intolerant to starch and all those products containing starch (e.g. bread, rice, potatoes). The number of people affected by either of this is very small, and such a fructose or starch intolerance is known from early childhood. People affected by this are largely compromised in their diet and typically seek regular advice from their medical doctors.

If you can enjoy sugar and sweets as well as starchy foods as much as essentially everbody can, you can enjoy isomaltulose, too.

 

Benefits of isomaltulose in sports drinks

Isomaltulose has unique benefits in sports drinks: Because of its its different linkage, isomaltulose is released into the body in a more steady way. This means that it provide carb ohydrate energy in a more balanced way compared to other carbs like sucrose or maltodextrin. The advantages of this in endurance sports have been shown: Isomaltulose provides sufficient energy during the exercise and at the same time allows a higher contribution of fat burning than with other carbohydrates. Knowing the importance of high fat burning levels for the sparing of carbohydrate stores (i.e. glycogen) in endurance sports (one effect you want to improve by training as well), the potential benefit of isomaltulose to enhance endurance performance becomes evident... Many people who have tried it are convinced and we have had lots of positive feedback.

 

The above are straight scientific facts and I can bring many doctors into this debate over artificial or not, the fact is its definitely not, and your coach is making a baseless statement like that without the intimate knowledge of the carbohydrate is blowing damaging wind unnecessarily. We went through 2 years of proper research and many many experts across the globe before we brought this in, its not something that happened overnight.

 

I agree in a race of high intensity, you cannot rely only on 32Gi to provide sufficient calories, you need to top up with chews or something else, but it will significantly keep your drop from being sudden and having to recover. But that is really obvious, because over 3-4 hours if you are burning off 750-1000 calories an hour you cannot expect to take in a bottle of 32Gi and get your required intake. Electrolytes yes, stability yes, but enough calories for sure not. In an IM i did recently overseas i was taking in a packet of chews every 60-90 minutes with the drink over a 4 hour bike leg to ensure my levels did not dip, only the drink would have seen me finished in that race.

 

I can debate this for hours, we are not sugar coating our product at all, it has a great place, and there is an art to proper nutrition when racing, its so key and needs to be so calculated and everyone is very different from the next. I work with athletes on a daily basis to ensure they are getting what they need to perform, my focus is not around only during the race, but days before, and pre-race, during and post, depending on the event. There is no one recipe fits all, but there is a logic to getting the right fit if you understand exactly what is required. An event should never be a shock to the system, you need to understand where you are going and how you are going to get through it. Be prepared and know not just the effort you are planning on putting out, but how you are going to fuel your effort as well. Plan for surprises as well, and try and stick to it.

 

Anyway, my fair say here, I hope this clarifies some issues mentioned above

 

all the best

M

[Jaco-fiets]

I could let u do that but then I would be not very helpful, in assisting you and if you want to get the best effect, rather dont start drinking that bottle before the race. You want to keep your pre-race meals as low GI as possible so as to not spike you before the start, what you are mixing will take u into a high GI range, rather use it during the race and not before :-) all the best

Mark

PS: Who wrote the article by the way?

 

Article was written by a Dr Tanje Oosthuyse

[Christopher Brunsdon]

Fructose actually has a Gi of 19 ;-), the problem with fructose is it does not release immediately, it has to go through the liver and then get broken down into glucose before it comes into action. Also if you actually to a response test with fructose you will see you dont get a peak only a drop.

32Gi actually has a low GI as well, BUT, you get the immediate release of glucose, PLUS the breakdown of Fructose in the process = 2 for 1, try it you will see, we have experimented a lot with these types of mixes over the past few years.

One more thing is its known that fructose can caused liver impedance, its not the healthiest of sugars and i would avoid it in large doses.

 

Just to add some personal experience with fructose, last year I switched to fructose completely, no more cane sugar, and at first it was fantastic as it regulated my blood sugar and it took longer for me to crash during the day. I was also using Xylitol in between but its very expensive.

 

Then a few months back I switched to Xylitol completely and I no longer crash in the afternoons. I consumer 10g a day, 5g with my Pronutro and 5g with my morning coffee. It does not matter if I'm working, studying or cycling, I feel the same throughout the day. I will add the I had some concentration problems till I cut out Fructose and cane sugar - but now I'm taking this thread OT

[MDW]

Just to add some personal experience with fructose, last year I switched to fructose completely, no more cane sugar, and at first it was fantastic as it regulated my blood sugar and it took longer for me to crash during the day. I was also using Xylitol in between but its very expensive.

 

Then a few months back I switched to Xylitol completely and I no longer crash in the afternoons. I consumer 10g a day, 5g with my Pronutro and 5g with my morning coffee. It does not matter if I'm working, studying or cycling, I feel the same throughout the day. I will add the I had some concentration problems till I cut out Fructose and cane sugar - but now I'm taking this thread OT

 

I would recommend Xylitol over fructose for my customers during the day as well, but not for cooking with. I do also think you need to limit the intake of Xylitol, only for the fact that it can cause stomach irritability, ie: the runs in large doses.

But wiser choice.