Prof Tim Noakes' U-turn on Carbohydrates

[Topwine]

I'll give my perspective for what it's worth :-)

I've been lowish carb since Feb2012, I've been very low carb since July 2012. less than 50g per day, I've posted pictures and info on twitter @RichardMcGeorge for anyone interested.

After 2 weeks I was able to ride without eating anything during the ride and drinking only water, I felt ok and completed many training rides up to 5 hours in this state.

Recently I rode the One Toner the same and I improved my time from last year by 40min, I had my blood sugar measured straight after the ride and it was 3.5 mmol(good), I felt good and concluded my brain had adapted well to using ketones as fuel.

I felt pretty good. BUT I can say that over the last two weeks things have taken a dramatic turn for the better. All of a sudden I have been feeling out of this world good, climbing is fantstic, TT rides awesome, everything is just effortless, obviously I am getting fitter and losing weight, but something happened at around the 12 week mark. Like a switch got flipped and the lights came on (in terms of riding with no food).

On the health side I've had my blood tested and liver and kidney function are normal, triglycerides are low, hdl high, ldl normal, fasting glucose normal. Next test end of Nov after DC I want to get my HBA1c tested and some random blood glucose tests just to see.

 

If you are doing low carb and are strict with it my recommendation would be keep measuring yourself and give it at least 12 weeks.

 

Check you on the DC (If we don't get stoned!)

 

Hi Richard

 

Could you elaborate on your daily diet and excercise regime ? At what intensity level do you excercise ? How long before you recover ? Do you adjust carb intake at all after excercise ?

[Richard 1973]

Hi Richard

 

Could you elaborate on your daily diet and excercise regime ? At what intensity level do you excercise ? How long before you recover ? Do you adjust carb intake at all after excercise ?

 

Tuesday and Thursday 1 - 2 spinning classes in a row, Saturday and Sunday Road riding usually with the team Saturday would be 2 hours Table view - Top of kloofnek and back. sunday would be 4 - 5 hours route varies, but DC training so we try and included 1 - 2000 m climbing . Intensity varies Longer rides easier, shorter rides could be flat out, last Sunday was an exception, we were tapering check my posts on twitter @RichardMcGeorge

Recovery is astonishing, I first noticed it after the 1 toner the next day I felt completely recovered although I didnt exercise until the tuesday, then I did a double spinning class high intensity and felt amazing.

 

From what I have read it seems we are more than capable of converting fat to glucose in the liver at a rate of up to 3grams per minute. more than enough for any exercise we need to do on a bicycle.

 

I dont eat any carbs except what is available in the LCHF foods I eat, certainly no sugar or refined carbs. I have a few pics on Twitter of some of the food I eat and will be adding more daily as I go along.

 

good resource is www.dietdoctor.com and lifezone.se

Edited November 21, 2012 by Richard 1973

[Topwine]

then I did a double spinning class high intensity and felt amazing.

 

spinning and high intensity ? thought it was different things ?

 

From what I have read it seems we are more than capable of converting fat to glucose in the liver at a rate of up to 3grams per minute. more than enough for any exercise we need to do on a bicycle.

 

where did you read that ? my understanding is you feed your muscles mostly on FFA, not glucose, ie the ketogenic advantage.

 

 

good resource is www.dietdoctor.com and lifezone.se

 

dietdoctor good, but not really an athlete ...

[Richard 1973]

 

Well I try and put the effort in on the spinning class :-)

 

I read and heard on various podscasts (Probably didn't fully understand) but in "the art and science of low carbohydrate performance" that through a process of gluconeogenesis we can oxidise / convert 2-3 grams of fat per minute to glucose (but on reflection maybe glucosneogenesis creates ketones and fatty acids (FFA) that we use in muscle? Open to correction.

 

Andreas Eenfeldt's dietry advice is what i'm eating, but you are right he is definetly not a athlete, Peter Attia would be a better example at eatingacademy.com

[Jaco-fiets]

I have been on keto for 7 weeks now. Couple of days ago i started to notice a funny smell. Almost like sweat. Im very hygenic and have never smelled in my life. Is this due to the diet?

[Cippo]

I have been on keto for 7 weeks now. Couple of days ago i started to notice a funny smell. Almost like sweat. Im very hygenic and have never smelled in my life. Is this due to the diet?

 

My take on this. Are you experiencing a fruity acidic smell? The ketones you might be smelling might be similiar to what happens with a diabetic when they do not have insulin to push the sugar into cells and their blood sugar level rises. The body then uses fat as energy for cells and gives off the ketotic smell. Hyperglyceamic patients have been mistaken at times to be drunk but in fact its the smell of ketones.

Edited November 29, 2012 by MCipollini

[Jaco-fiets]

Can't place the smell. Don't think its acidic though. My pee has a very strong sharp smell.

 

I keep putting on roll on because i keep thinking the smell is coming from my armpits. I am scared to ask my girlfriend if my breath stinks because i have a feeling it does smell a little weird

 

Your theory does ring a bell now!

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jaco-fiets

[Topwine]

Can't place the smell. Don't think its acidic though. My pee has a very strong sharp smell.

 

I keep putting on roll on because i keep thinking the smell is coming from my armpits. I am scared to ask my girlfriend if my breath stinks because i have a feeling it does smell a little weird

 

Your theory does ring a bell now!

 

Congrats, you are ketogenic! The fruity smell is because you convert (break down ) too much protein into glucose. How much protein in your diet ? Up the fat if you need more calories and cut some protein.

[HappyMartin]

Yes I had that smell when on a long cycling tour. Was not getting enough to eat and was burning muscle. Was not aware it would happen if your protein consumption was high and you are on a reduced carb diet. Makes sense though

[Jaco-fiets]

Congrats, you are ketogenic! The fruity smell is because you convert (break down ) too much protein into glucose. How much protein in your diet ? Up the fat if you need more calories and cut some protein.

 

My current breakdown is 175-185g protein/day

20-25g carbs (all trace carbs)

150-155g fat/day

 

gives me about 2200-2250 cal/day

 

I think i will drop the protein to 150g and up the fat to 165. My cal would stay the same then. I am currently maintaining weight while keeping nice and lean. I think i am slowly dropping bodyfat still as well. I am around 9% at the moment. Weight went down about 2kg since i started the keto and bodyfat about 2%. Looks like my current cal intake is at maintenance level. I am planning to ease up on the gym now and spend more time in the saddle gradually. Getting my new 29er on monday so i am really exited start riding regularly again.

 

Any other suggestions regarding cal breakdown?

Edited November 30, 2012 by Jaco-fiets

[Richard 1973]

My current breakdown is 175-185g protein/day

20-25g carbs (all trace carbs)

150-155g fat/day

 

gives me about 2200-2250 cal/day

 

I think i will drop the protein to 150g and up the fat to 165. My cal would stay the same then. I am currently maintaining weight while keeping nice and lean. I think i am slowly dropping bodyfat still as well. I am around 9% at the moment. Weight went down about 2kg since i started the keto and bodyfat about 2%. Looks like my current cal intake is at maintenance level. I am planning to ease up on the gym now and spend more time in the saddle gradually. Getting my new 29er on monday so i am really exited start riding regularly again.

 

Any other suggestions regarding cal breakdown?

 

Looks like you are sorted, nicely done.

 

How are you performing on the bike? Are you riding water only, and what are your results like now?

[Richard 1973]

Anyone doing the Burger on Sunday on low-carb?

 

I would love to hear what your training has been like, fuel up to and then results?

 

Just Curious.

[Topwine]

My current breakdown is 175-185g protein/day

20-25g carbs (all trace carbs)

150-155g fat/day

 

gives me about 2200-2250 cal/day

 

I think i will drop the protein to 150g and up the fat to 165. My cal would stay the same then. I am currently maintaining weight while keeping nice and lean. I think i am slowly dropping bodyfat still as well. I am around 9% at the moment. Weight went down about 2kg since i started the keto and bodyfat about 2%. Looks like my current cal intake is at maintenance level. I am planning to ease up on the gym now and spend more time in the saddle gradually. Getting my new 29er on monday so i am really exited start riding regularly again.

 

Any other suggestions regarding cal breakdown?

 

You should experiment what works best for you I think. Your protein intake does seem high though and would explain the keto "smell" I weight 68 now and struggle to eat more than 120 g protein a day .

 

If you are fully keto adapted your protein sparing capacity goes up and you prob dont need that much protein as you need during the first 3 weeks (0.7 - 1 g / pound LBM ) of adaption, unless you do some serious weight work .

 

I just finished Lyle Mcdonald's book " The Ketogenic diet" and learned quite a lot. I am going to experiment with his TKD method where you consume a bit more carbs before and after workouts so my muscles can recover a bit more quickly from their depleted glycogen state. All while keeping my blood glucose rises within my strict limits though.

[Jaco-fiets]

Looks like you are sorted, nicely done.

 

How are you performing on the bike? Are you riding water only, and what are your results like now?

 

Struggling a bit with high intensity work but strength on the bike seems good. I am not very "riding" fit currently and i am sure that plays a role. Current rides just on water except saturday morning where i take in some carbs (only for part of the day). I will go over to TKD (Lyle Mcdonald) as soon as i start spending more time in saddle.

[Jaco-fiets]

You should experiment what works best for you I think. Your protein intake does seem high though and would explain the keto "smell" I weight 68 now and struggle to eat more than 120 g protein a day .

 

If you are fully keto adapted your protein sparing capacity goes up and you prob dont need that much protein as you need during the first 3 weeks (0.7 - 1 g / pound LBM ) of adaption, unless you do some serious weight work .

 

I just finished Lyle Mcdonald's book " The Ketogenic diet" and learned quite a lot. I am going to experiment with his TKD method where you consume a bit more carbs before and after workouts so my muscles can recover a bit more quickly from their depleted glycogen state. All while keeping my blood glucose rises within my strict limits though.

 

I am waiting for my "art and science of low carb living" from amazon.

 

I will also switch to TKD when i start riding more often

[Richard 1973]

Struggling a bit with high intensity work but strength on the bike seems good. I am not very "riding" fit currently and i am sure that plays a role. Current rides just on water except saturday morning where i take in some carbs (only for part of the day). I will go over to TKD (Lyle Mcdonald) as soon as i start spending more time in saddle.

 

Reading Phinney and Volek and Peter Attia, they agree that being fat adapted is like a switch, either on or off. if you consume too much carb or too much protein in one meal or one day you get kicked out of ketosis and it takes 2 weeks to get the fat burning going again. With that in mind I have been at very low carb levels for three months and it was only after 2.5 months that my performance really started to feel great. I think I wrote this in an earlier post.

 

But it will be interesting to see how the TKD perspective works for you.