GrumpyOldGuy Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Anyway, Horner said after the race he will climb with anyone in the world. I wonder if he's been watching the Giro... Yes, the Radioshack boys are good enough to sit in the front bunch on the big climbs but I don't see them competing with Contador and Schleck on the big climbs. I'm hoping Horner and Levi would compete. Realistically though, I doubt it. Horner said that.? Maybe he meant his step- ladder.? Certainly not on a big tour climb like Zoncolan. I agree, I dont think Radioshack has a 21 day grand tour winning team, Horner could possibly be considered their only chance and frankly, I think, at 37 / 38 he is way to old. 'Berto is already a level above the rest, Rijs is a very competant manager and I doubt very much they are flying by the seat of their pants, they know exactly what 'Berto is capable of and how to go about achieving that.Failing an absolute 'Berto melt down, I dont see anyone matching him on the major climbs or the TT, especially not Horner or Levi.
nochain Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 I dont know anything about these figures, but are they really that reliable.? Surely there are lots of factors which can alter these readings, anything from having a bad nights sleep to a sniffle to a tail wind to complete exhaustion.? I know modern thinking is all about gadgets and computer downloads and reams of print outs, but in my opinion the athlete is still the deciding factor, I think mental stress, personal issues, a bad night sleep, just day to day worries about wife / kids / did the post get delivered all effect an athlete at this level in various ways, even if the computer says they can go harder or they were maxed out, its just an indication in my opinion, I think they all know their limits without refering to a paper download.No for sure the power to weight is only an indication of what he is capable of on a perfect day. They train on these figures and know exactly when they push too hard or go into the red because they get tested so many times a year that by the time a riders goes into a tour like this he at least have a very good idea of he's Max ability.All I am saying with this is that he's numbers on that climb seems to be not he's best so the chances are there that he was not riding at full effort(very close but not he's best) or he still has some way to go before he gets to he's peak form.This can mean that he might be fresher after the Giro than expected from a Giro winner. In the last 2 years both Basso(last year) and Menshov(the year before) claimed after the Giro that they were feeling great and they have the perfect recovery planned and will be ready.But in Both cases they ended up failing big time to produce any type of form going into the 3rd week of the tour.In both cases they showed at that time to be 2 of the best tour riders in the bunch but they were nowhere on the tour because of the Giro and even struggled to hang on to the top 10 riders.In Fact if you go and have a look at the top 3 riders in the last 3 year’s Giro you will find that not 1 of them ended up doing anything in the Tour. But all of them would have at some stage at least claimed that he is ready and will be there for the win!It’s because of this that I think if Conto ends up going to the tour and win it this year then in my book at least he will be the best tour rider of all time…Mainly because of what he has been up against.
GrumpyOldGuy Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Fair enough No Chain. Nice perspective on the issue. I am wondering if age is also not a factor No Chain.? Both Basso and Menchov are quite a bit older than 'berto and maybe that played on their recovery.? I think (actually know from my own experience) that the older you get the harder it is to recover quickly, 'Berto is at his absolute peak age wise now, barring injury his body should just naturally be able to repair and recover itself quickly right now, as doctors will tell you, 28 is a good age, the body is mature enough to take heavy abuse but strong enough to recover quickly - at 35 however this is not really the case anymore.
nochain Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) Yes they seem to think that between 28 and 32 is the perfect age for a grand tour rider.Especially in the long TT's most GC riders seem to mature only after the age of 26. I think Basso was last year still as close to he's best ever in the Giro but yes age might have an impact.The big thing is not only the recovery as far as muscles go but also the problem of weight. To win a grand tour the riders have to go down to very dangerous levels of body fat% and by the time they come out of the tour they are at the max of what is possible for any athlete.Now the problem they face is to pick up weight and lose that weight in 6 weeks again is not a very healthy thing to do because no rider can stay at that level for longer than a couple of weeks without completely losing he's power.That is why most guys will time it to perfection and only lose the last 1 to 2 kg a week before the tour. Armstrong had a very interesting take on this as to how long riders can stay at that level. Remember Iban Mayo the guy that nearly killed Armstrong on Mont Vonteux? Still to today one of the most talented climbers ever...he's only problem was that he went into the tour every year to HOT and to Lean so he's body ended up not being able to handle being that lean for that long. But yes I am sure if anybody can do what has not been possible in the modern era of cycling it will be Conto!! Edited May 26, 2011 by nochain
Cyclocross Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 Only got to watch the final stage last night on the PVR. Amused by Uncle Phil's rambling and cussin' at the very start of the broadcast when the mike was on without his knowledge.
GrumpyOldGuy Posted May 26, 2011 Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) I think Basso was last year still as close to he's best ever in the Giro but yes age might have an impact.The big thing is not only the recovery as far as muscles go but also the problem of weight.That is why most guys will time it to perfection and only lose the last 1 to 2 kg a week before the tour. Snip.... Armstrong had a very interesting take on this as to how long riders can stay at that level. Remember Iban Mayo the guy that nearly killed Armstrong on Mont Vonteux? Still to today one of the most talented climbers ever...he's only problem was that he went into the tour every year to HOT and to Lean so he's body ended up not being able to handle being that lean for that long. But yes I am sure if anybody can do what has not been possible in the modern era of cycling it will be Conto!! I agree, Basso was at the best he has been at last year's Giro, but didnt he get sick at the tour, I seem to recall he did and that was the reason he claimed he ceased to be competitive. Although as you rightly say, he probably got sick because his body simply couldnt continue taking the abuse - a normal shut down mechanism. Sure I remember Mayo, I actually thought, like many, he would be the next tour winner, but yeah, he never really delivered after that crash with LA - Interesting that you say he collapsed because he was too lean at the get go, because its common for an athlete going into an extreme endurance event to go in with a kilo or two to lose,... it makes one wonder how guys at this level can make such basic mistakes, but, I guess, thats just human nature. Edited May 26, 2011 by GrumpyOldGuy
Agteros Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 Saw a comment to that effect on the Giro thread. Did a search for Amgen and another for California, and only results were threads from 2011 to 2007 So it seems like the Tour of California thread disappeared Or did all of us 'mis-place' it? Anybody care to post a link to the 2012 thread?
nochain Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 The mt baldy stage was one of the best races so far this year!!
Jakkals. Posted May 20, 2012 Posted May 20, 2012 The mt baldy stage was one of the best races so far this year!! Just finish watching it. It was very classy and a great ride by Robert Gesink.
Tumbleweed Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 It's here, but not sure why it isn't showing under international. Wing ping Matt. https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/103433-amgen-tour-of-california/page__st__64__p__1412437__hl__amgen__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=1412437
Agteros Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 It's here, but not sure why it isn't showing under international. Wing ping Matt. https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/103433-amgen-tour-of-california/page__st__64__p__1412437__hl__amgen__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=1412437Blocked for the rest of us
Tumbleweed Posted May 21, 2012 Posted May 21, 2012 Blocked for the rest of us Not sure why… have merged the thread with this one so all the previous posts are here.
'Dale Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Sagan took a historic 5th win yesterday... Man, that laaitie can ride!
'Dale Posted May 21, 2012 Author Posted May 21, 2012 Awesome win for Rabobank's Gesink.He's had a rough time with injuries and personal troubles.
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