Speed vs. Endurance

[Enticement]

@enticement

 

It appears that I have been training all wrong.

I have done mainly distance with what I thought was a good base plan every season.

 

Is it to late to reverse the process in order for me to get some speed in to my legs ?

 

Dangle, speed is determined by the correct mix of muscle fiber types (which you inherited) and the synchronized manner in which these cells receive the message they should contract. If there is a nano second delay for the message to reach 50% of the cells in a muscle, for that part the muscle works at only 50%. That is why real speed training is actually a process of securing a neurological track and should be done when the muscle is recovered. So, no, its never too late to build speed, but that is why you train differently in off-peak, pre-peak and in peak periods.

[Wyatt Earp]

Dangle, speed is determined by the correct mix of muscle fiber types (which you inherited) and the synchronized manner in which these cells receive the message they should contract. If there is a nano second delay for the message to reach 50% of the cells in a muscle, for that part the muscle works at only 50%. That is why real speed training is actually a process of securing a neurological track and should be done when the muscle is recovered. So, no, its never too late to build speed, but that is why you train differently in off-peak, pre-peak and in peak periods.

 

I am in my dinges

[manbearpig]

Dunno if I'm wrong but I personally feel you can ride yourself slow but doing too many long easy rides. I don't get to ride as often as i want so when I do I try to hammer it. Of course easy rides have their place but if you are not hurting on most of your rides you are wasting your time. Your body wants to become as strong as possible so ask more of it and it will give you more. This is of course my opinion and how I train, I am not a race winner so I wouldn't listen to me anyway.

[andydude]

You can be the best sprinter in the world, but if you can't make the finish line with the bunch then it helps you squat!

[rudi-h]

Dangle, speed is determined by the correct mix of muscle fiber types (which you inherited) and the synchronized manner in which these cells receive the message they should contract. If there is a nano second delay for the message to reach 50% of the cells in a muscle, for that part the muscle works at only 50%. That is why real speed training is actually a process of securing a neurological track and should be done when the muscle is recovered. So, no, its never too late to build speed, but that is why you train differently in off-peak, pre-peak and in peak periods.

 

help me if i'm wrong, but the "fast twitch" muscle thingies that you are talking about are the different muscles you use to riding your bike vs doing something like a 100m sprint, shot-put or a pull-up. I can understand that when it gets to these types of all-out efforts, then neurological tracks and genetics and all this stuff that you talk about comes into play, but is it really applicable to cycling where "speed" simply means you go a little harder that what you would consider "slow"? The exception obviously is bunch sprinting, but 99% of us never even get in a bunch sprint situation, nevermind trying to win it.

 

I mean does a guy that can ride the argus in 2:50 really have more "fast twitch" muscle fibres and better genetics etc. than a guy that takes 3:10? Me thinks not, the 2:50 guy is just stronger and fitter. You don't need to be a good sprinter to finish a marathon type race in a decent time...

[TopFuel]

Dangle, speed is determined by the correct mix of muscle fiber types (which you inherited) and the synchronized manner in which these cells receive the message they should contract. If there is a nano second delay for the message to reach 50% of the cells in a muscle, for that part the muscle works at only 50%. That is why real speed training is actually a process of securing a neurological track and should be done when the muscle is recovered. So, no, its never too late to build speed, but that is why you train differently in off-peak, pre-peak and in peak periods.

 

What if I told you that it is possible to train your muscles and alter the 'mix', as genetics are not the be all and end all. Also, muscle is broken down into functional units called motor units which contract together, not 50% of the muscle as you say. I appreciate that this was an analogy on your part, I just dont feel its an accurate one.

 

There is nothing wrong with building a base, and then doing speed work in the late pre-season. I'm pretty sure that's why every training schedule out there does it as such.

[Enticement]

help me if i'm wrong, but the "fast twitch" muscle thingies that you are talking about are the different muscles you use to riding your bike vs doing something like a 100m sprint, shot-put or a pull-up. I can understand that when it gets to these types of all-out efforts, then neurological tracks and genetics and all this stuff that you talk about comes into play, but is it really applicable to cycling where "speed" simply means you go a little harder that what you would consider "slow"? The exception obviously is bunch sprinting, but 99% of us never even get in a bunch sprint situation, nevermind trying to win it.

 

I mean does a guy that can ride the argus in 2:50 really have more "fast twitch" muscle fibres and better genetics etc. than a guy that takes 3:10? Me thinks not, the 2:50 guy is just stronger and fitter. You don't need to be a good sprinter to finish a marathon type race in a decent time...

 

Even endurance athletes like marathon and Epic riders use their FTfibres during the activity, and not only at the sprint. Like when you're going up a steep technical climb and you have to lift your front wheel onto a rock. That is why a well conditioned athlete starts developing pink muscle fibers - those are the white fibers developing mitochondria (the energy factories in your muscle that gives the red color to the fiber). Pacing strategy is about how close to your maximum you can maintain your effort for the duration of the activity, and for that you need efficiency and effectiveness (efficacy) of the total muscle with all types of fibers. Otherwise you're the Ferrari GTO going in 1st gear all the time.

[Enticement]

What if I told you that it is possible to train your muscles and alter the 'mix', as genetics are not the be all and end all. Also, muscle is broken down into functional units called motor units which contract together, not 50% of the muscle as you say. I appreciate that this was an analogy on your part, I just dont feel its an accurate one.

 

There is nothing wrong with building a base, and then doing speed work in the late pre-season. I'm pretty sure that's why every training schedule out there does it as such.

 

You're right, but for purpose of explaining I used the 50% example and left out the difference between FT1 & FT2 fibers. It We don't speak with forked tongue, also about the base.

[andydude]

What if I told you that it is possible to train your muscles and alter the 'mix', as genetics are not the be all and end all.

 

You're right.

 

What if I told you that it's not possible to train your muscles to change slow twitch to fast twitch, although you can the other way around?

[Wyatt Earp]

@entrapment

 

Won't I burn out if I go speed all the time ?

[Enticement]

@entrapment

 

Won't I burn out if I go speed all the time ?

 

Burn out occurs when friction between the atmosphere and the surface of your skin causes heat build-up, eventually resulting in spontaneous combustion - just don't go that fast.

['Dale]

The man has stamina.

 

:-p

['Dale]

Cool article on the topic:

 

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2009/09/speed-strength-and-endurance/

[Enticement]

The chemical reactions taking place within your muscle cells, whether going flat-out on a level road, forcing your way up an ascend or forcing the pace against a head wind, are the same if the level of exertion is the same. If going at the exact same level of exertion within these 3 scenarios, they will require exactly the same amount of "fuel" delivered at the same rate. When you change the intensity, it requires a different rate of delivery, and the rate is determined by the level of development of the transport system of your body (blood). Different coaches distinguish between various ways to expose our bodies to endurance-type training (speed endurance, muscle endurance, endurance, etc) but they all have the same goal in mind: develop endurance for coping with a constantly changing demand for "fuel". Speed on the other hand, is the ability of these cells to operate as a unit on demand. Speed requires a well programmed neurological track for providing the impulses to various cells the exact moment absolute simultaneous contraction is required. Because your brain always retain a certain number of muscle cells for emergency purposes and do not make them part of normal contraction, the process of speed conditioning convinces your brain to retain less cells, and you "develop" speed.