Do you know what you are covered for / Cyclesure?

[shaper]

I want to stress that we have been in constant communication with Cyclesure regarding responses on this thread. Cyclesure joined us today to discuss this matter. They are Hollard partner-brokers and as such what we say goes for Cyclesure too. However, they are the cycling insurance experts and they deal purely with cycling related claims, hence we suggest you ask them any questions.

 

While your examples are common situations for cyclists, no two will be identical. Hence we review each claim on its merits individually.

 

A bikejacking is a violent event. Violent doesn't have to equal physical harm.

 

So in a nutshell after all this time you are passing the buck to cyclesure without really clarifying anything!!.... yet you are the underwriters who will be dealing with the claim as it seems cyclesure first response to any claim is to reject it... so anyone with any sense will appeal that decision ... and as such will be escalated to Hollard for review and final decision....Hence why we as hubbers have dragged you here to clarify and sort it out !!

 

I guess the PR saving exercise you tried to do has failed !!

[Hollard]

I am sorry Nick, I know a fudge reply when I see one.

 

The facts under the 3 examples I gave may not be the same, but the principle most certainly is. In other words, the same principle will apply to each of the three scenarios I sketched out. No need to hide behind the good ol' "we will consider each set of facts on its merits".

 

It therefore appears that a claim will be rejected in the following circumstances:

 

1. A service provider or domestic worker on your property who has been given access to your property but then steals your bike. This unfortunately happens all the time with other types of property but appears to be covered under standard household insurance.

 

2. You are washing or repairing your bike on your own property (behind locked gates in a complex) but someone steals your bike from within the complex when you are not watching.

 

3. You are at a multi-stage event and your bike is left guarded (but not locked) in the bike paddock overnight. Someone steals your bike from the paddock.

 

Unless you are able to confirm otherwise, I will be looking for other insurance. If I can't find any, then I guess I will need to follow the advice of Spez247.

 

Any other Hubber want to introduce an insurance product that caters for the real world?

 

I'm honestly not trying to fudge you, that's not the Hollard way. However, I'm still not comfortable with commenting on hypothetical situations. Some people might take "we will consider each set of facts on its merits" a different way to how I intend it, but in reality each scenario really is quite different to another, even if the same principles apply. The Cyclesure policy is an all-risk policy, and, speaking generally, in insurance we always keep in mind what the "reasonable man" would do given a certain set of circumstances.

 

I was very encouraged by the conversations I heard today. We had some good discussion about the policy wording and will continue to look at ways to improve it, being sure to include some of the passionate cyclists (and Hubbers!) that we have here at Hollard.

[Hollard]

So in a nutshell after all this time you are passing the buck to cyclesure without really clarifying anything!!.... yet you are the underwriters who will be dealing with the claim as it seems cyclesure first response to any claim is to reject it... so anyone with any sense will appeal that decision ... and as such will be escalated to Hollard for review and final decision....Hence why we as hubbers have dragged you here to clarify and sort it out !!

 

I guess the PR saving exercise you tried to do has failed !!

 

Hi Shaper.

 

Cyclesure pay 95% of their claims within 24 hours, so their first response is definitely not to repudiate a claim. If they think they might, then by law they must inform us. This is when the review process where the merits of the claim are looked at starts.

 

I am not passing the buck to Cyclesure, but as they deal purely with cycling related insurance it would most likely be best to ask them a cycling related question as your first port of call. If you'd prefer to ask us, no problem. We're here, we're on Facebook, we're on Twitter, or you can mail us, phone us or contact us via our website.

[Hollard]

Hi all.

 

I'm signing off now. Thanks for your comments, questions and dialogue. As stated earlier, we will continue to monitor this thread. Also, if you ever need us in future and we don't reply to a thread here (where we are mentioned) within one working day, please ping this profile so we get an email or reach us via our website, Facebook, Twitter or by emailing ask@hollard.co.za. All the best and stay safe out there #thinkbike.

[Brogue]

In terms of updating policy documents, Cyclesure does so via email. This is trackable in that we know that the email has been received and opened. We currently do not insist on proof that the policyholder has actually read their document. The email that is sent draws the attention of the customer to any important clauses.

 

This is what really gets my goat. Chopping and changing of the policy conditions, after inception with scant regard for the policyholder and once the all-important debit order is secured. As far as I am concerned, the policy I accepted and signed for should be valid until renewal. No emailed "tracked" changes, that's a load of bollocks. My 6yr old daughter regularly old logs on deletes emails, coz it's "fun and it makes daddy mad"

 

Stop trying to cover yourselves with petty smallprint, stick with a policy wording for 12months!

[shaper]

Hi Shaper.

 

Cyclesure pay 95% of their claims within 24 hours, so their first response is definitely not to repudiate a claim. If they think they might, then by law they must inform us. This is when the review process where the merits of the claim are looked at starts.

 

I am not passing the buck to Cyclesure, but as they deal purely with cycling related insurance it would most likely be best to ask them a cycling related question as your first port of call. If you'd prefer to ask us, no problem. We're here, we're on Facebook, we're on Twitter, or you can mail us, phone us or contact us via our website.

 

Nick

 

Quoted % of payout of claims mean nothing as that to most is a figure plucked out of thin air unless you can substantiate with industry facts.

 

If cyclesure are so on the ball with such payments, why are tithey not here... if they are so dedicated to cycling, you would think it would be a mandatory part of their business to be aware of the hub and any concerns that get raised... but instead they rely on their big cousin to smooth the waters...

 

There will be many cyclist/hubbers will be considering their insurance policies with cyclesure and am pretty sure the majority will be looking elsewhere!!

 

I for one will not consider either if was looking for insurance.

[Blackbeard]

Bottom line is that the committee called "Nick" has no authority to commit to anything and was tasked with spin doctoring to buy time while the legal committee (called "Nel" for want of a better name and to remain topical) met with the bean counters (called "Nene") and the actuary committee (called "Gert"). They had come up with a way to deal with Carpet's repudiated claim so as to get these pesky Hubbers to go away. An ex gratia payment!

 

Nothing changes as all cases are different and no precedent must be set.

 

Do not fear though - "Nick" is encouraged by the conversations he heard (one presumes of Nel, Nene and Gert). And look... some Hollard employees are passionate about cyclists and some are even Hubbers(!).

[GrantRH]

Hi Nick,

 

I have asked my broker to check with Cyclesure but there has been no response yet.

 

You are their underwriter. I would have thought that Cyclesure and Hollard would have canvassed these issues collectively, as partners in the product. I presume that is the reason why you (as Hollard) first thought it necessary to enter the debate.

 

The examples I have given are common day occurrences, nothing unique about them. Maybe I was just hoping that you and Cyclesure could provide clarity on common real-world scenarios.

 

I appreciate that you don't want to set a precedent, but that's actually exactly what we are asking for... either way.

 

 

[GrantRH]

Given the reluctance to answers questions out in the open for everyone to see, I will post my brokers recent response for everyone's benefit:

 

The response from CycleSure is that I am not covered if a service provider at home walks off with my bike. (Was that so hard to confirm Nick?)

 

It follows that you won't be covered if you are washing your bike in your complex and someone walked off with it when you weren't watching; or if it is stolen from the guarded bike paddock at a multi-stage event.

 

So I am not covered in respect of two of the biggest risks that I would normally face.

 

I have asked my broker to check for alternative cover.

[TALUS]

Just to make sure: Is an ex-gratia payment tantamount to accepting and settling the claim or is it a once-off way of making a problem go away. Why is there a different term? Why is an ex-gratia payment needed if the claim was never rejected? Why was my posts visible to many Hubbers who liked it but completely invisible to Nick?

 

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[HowellingWulf]

Very informative thread.

 

Nick, thanks for taking the time to address all the queries to an extent.

 

Carpet, yayayayayay!

 

I for one am thinking of changing my policy. Currently with Cyclesure - 3 x Spesh, 1 x Niner, couple of Polar's, Rudy's, shoes, Thule rack & other odds & ends - so not a small policy by any stretch of the imagination. Reason being the race paddock scenario & the washing and drying of bike in garden within Estate scenario. Two things that could very well happen to me.

 

Can anybody recommend a decent broker in the Centurion area? Need to review my entire/all policies.

[GrantRH]

Just to make sure: Is an ex-gratia payment tantamount to accepting and settling the claim or is it a once-off way of making a problem go away. Why is there a different term? Why is an ex-gratia payment needed if the claim was never rejected? Why was my posts visible to many Hubbers who liked it but completely invisible to Nick?

 

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

The former, to make the problem go away without setting a precedent.

[GrantRH]

Sorry, latter!

[dillon]

If you want to move this past nick, then take it to facebook, twitter, pintrest, other forums. Right now the social team will respond to every post with no real action, hub land is not the be all of social media. Carpet if I was you I would post in every place possible, with links to your posts in other social media platforms.

 

You need to create a wider audience, I bet you will start getting somewhere. Right now nick will continue to do his job of containing the negativity to the hub only. The more places your story is on the internet, the more google will index it, the greater the negatively for the brand.

[Brogue]

Just to make sure: Is an ex-gratia payment tantamount to accepting and settling the claim or is it a once-off way of making a problem go away. Why is there a different term? Why is an ex-gratia payment needed if the claim was never rejected? Why was my posts visible to many Hubbers who liked it but completely invisible to Nick?

 

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

Talus, an EG payment is made without any legal obligation and depends entirely on the insurer's largesse. Also, such a payment is only considered once a claim has been rejected. Our friend "Nick" is being less than candid.

[TALUS]

I have another question regarding communication. If your Dr does a blood test that unexpectedly shows up a cancer in your system, would it be acceptable to send an e-mail informing you of this and then taking it as read and accepted if you did not respond in 20 days? Would a judge think this is reasonable? Oh wait - this is not about the patient but more about the Dr.

 

Please will somebody ask Nick this tmrw?