Gene Therapy

[boeing]

With all the talk of drugs etc I just thought I ould open the argument a little further. Genetic doping is the next big thing around the corner. There is no way of being able to detect whether someone has undergone gene therapy or not. Gene therapy also takes many forms. But basically, the argument for legalising it plays a strong hand. Sport is going to change in a big way in the next 50 years!

 

Any comments?

 

[Chunky]

Changed already.

 

Gene doping already available in Spain. The know how lies in Australia with a certain doctor from Sydney. While there are no tests for gene manipulation its alreday rife in Power type events...

 

Top sprinters on the track in both cycling and Athletics have increased in Power to weight ratios drastically over the last 10 years. This can be atrributable in some extent  to Growth Hormones but its believed that Gene doping is responsible for the biggest jump.

 

Pausine was a drug available since the early 80's. It was initially introduced as a Somatropin type Growth Hormone. The fluid was actually an extract from the petuitry gland of a Pig. It wa sresponsible for massive increases in strenght but there were many side effects. This was the drug of choice by the East Germans in the 80's. It was later discovered that its biggest attribute was not its growth hormone type effect but its ability to rid the body of Genes that were 'Non Athletic'.

 

This product is still available today if you know where to look. It wa sthis drug that the above mentioned Pharmacoligist/Biologist used to base his research and development on for Gene Manipulation.

 

It works and its available, and I have met the guy who pioneered it. I know of one Australian track cyclists who used it and the gains were incredible.

[boeing]

But lets be honest, the tip of the ice berg has only been reached. until GL-GM reaches it's potential and market, the full extent has not been considered. This track cyclist, does he by any chance ride road events too? Has the pharmacologist written any papers on the subject?

[Chunky]

Quite Correct, its in its infant stage but it wont take long.

There are so many substances and methods available now WADA dont even know which way to look.

Untracable EPO manufactured in good old RS of A. Hemopure, Oxyglobin, Groth Hormones and others are part of the Pro's daily diet with absolutely no chance of getting caught. I say again, 100% guaranteed that you cannot get caught.

Its sad in a way that the purists will never understand, but times change. Cycling is now a science. Training techniques are now only a small part of the big wheel.

Its Chemical warfare, nothing less !!!!

[Guest colonel]

Is there not alot of "Drama" around the doping etc for the Beijing olympics with the genetic doping and atheltes not being able to be caught? I read a big thing about it some time back and they say alot of records should be broken cause of it.

[boeing]

I know for a fact that hemopure is a big one that the cyclists enjoy the taste of. The chemicals will become obsolete with gene therapy though, and in a way for the better. There is very little risk in gene therapy and if it is obtainable to the masses, it simply levels the playing field, making it a test of character, will power and strategic no how; nothing else! What could be more fair? WADA are slowing the process though. At the moment it is simply an ethical issue.

 

Cyclists simply see it as a training aid. WADA at one stage were looking at banning hypoxic chambers; which is ridiculous. They would never have been able to monitor that sort of use. The whole subject is too distorted. Quite frankly I view it as a step amongst the stairs to elevation. That said, until it is legalised....it is illegal.

 

[boeing]

 

Is there not alot of "Drama" around the doping etc for the Beijing olympics with the genetic doping and atheltes not being able to be caught? I read a big thing about it some time back and they say alot of records should be broken cause of it.

 

I haven't read anything recently, but records will be smashed by the East Europeans and Chinese. The Chinese are training behind closed doors. I get the impression that the Chinese will take the most medals.

 

[Witrot]

Quite Correct' date=' its in its infant stage but it wont take long.

There are so many substances and methods available now WADA dont even know which way to look.

Untracable EPO manufactured in good old RS of A. Hemopure, Oxyglobin, Groth Hormones and others are part of the Pro's daily diet with absolutely no chance of getting caught. I say again, 100% guaranteed that you cannot get caught.

Its sad in a way that the purists will never understand, but times change. Cycling is now a science. Training techniques are now only a small part of the big wheel.

Its Chemical warfare, nothing less !!!!

[/quote']

 

Interesting, allthough it won't be 100% guarenteed for long. This long can mean couple years or decades. Big research companies will figure it out.

 

If you use this stuff, it is not fixed in all your cells. You will be able to trace these things by taking specific cells from the body and you would be able to see the difference in cells. The major problem is to find the specific markers for all these substances to be traced. This cost time and millions of dollars to research for it, which is a major problem. This can take a while, but it will be caught up.

 

One way of WADA or what ever company/organisation to stop this later on is take specific genetic samples as you start as cyclist or whatever sport. If they get the markers to identify this substances used, well. There will be chaos and a sports will suffer big time as everyone will be identified! All substances used do leave traces, doesn't matter from where, genetic or whatever!

[Chunky]

Doping in the end will become legalised.

 

There will be no way of getting ahead of the research that is done in this field. Tests are only developed once the substance or technique is being widely used. Its logical to then say that in essence WADA are always a few steps behind.

 

They are loosing the race on a daily basis. Spectators want to see super human performances. These are some of the contributing factors to motivate legalisation.

 

Another view would be to protect the athletes health. If you not chasing them they dont need to use the risky stuff. Atheletes are always using the next best thing to avoid a positive test.

 

It it were legalised EVERYBODY would use it.

[boeing]

 

Quite Correct' date=' its in its infant stage but it wont take long.

There are so many substances and methods available now WADA dont even know which way to look.

Untracable EPO manufactured in good old RS of A. Hemopure, Oxyglobin, Groth Hormones and others are part of the Pro's daily diet with absolutely no chance of getting caught. I say again, 100% guaranteed that you cannot get caught.

Its sad in a way that the purists will never understand, but times change. Cycling is now a science. Training techniques are now only a small part of the big wheel.

Its Chemical warfare, nothing less !!!!

[/quote']

 

Interesting, allthough it won't be 100% guarenteed for long. This long can mean couple years or decades. Big research companies will figure it out.

 

If you use this stuff, it is not fixed in all your cells. You will be able to trace these things by taking specific cells from the body and you would be able to see the difference in cells. The major problem is to find the specific markers for all these substances to be traced. This cost time and millions of dollars to research for it, which is a major problem. This can take a while, but it will be caught up.

 

One way of WADA or what ever company/organisation to stop this later on is take specific genetic samples as you start as cyclist or whatever sport. If they get the markers to identify this substances used, well. There will be chaos and a sports will suffer big time as everyone will be identified! All substances used do leave traces, doesn't matter from where, genetic or whatever!

 

With gene therapy there are no markers. GL-GM (Germ line Gene modification) basically means that you can alter the genes of your egg/sperm so that they will pass favourable traits onto your foetus. The "beauty" with gene therapy is that the genes become part of your genes so there are no foreign substances in your body. It is full proof. WADA will never catch up with it

 

[Witrot]

Doping in the end will become legalised.

 

There will be no way of getting ahead of the research that is done in this field. Tests are only developed once the substance or technique is being widely used. Its logical to then say that in essence WADA are always a few steps behind.

 

They are loosing the race on a daily basis. Spectators want to see super human performances. These are some of the contributing factors to motivate legalisation.

 

Another view would be to protect the athletes health. If you not chasing them they dont need to use the risky stuff. Atheletes are always using the next best thing to avoid a positive test.

 

It it were legalised EVERYBODY would use it.

 

Agree totally. thats the sad part for sport for the future

[Witrot]

Boeing, it can be done. Allready been done in cows. But to do it is not cost effective at all!!

[boeing]

As far as I know GL-Gm hasn't been applied to cattle, has it? There is no real reason to ban the use of the technique

[keith]

Hey guys sorry to post an arb question- but what would you recommend, the Trek 1000 or the Schwinn Fastback Sport? Shot!!!

[Witrot]

Not with this name, but there is many big research labs all over the world just doing these types of things and keep it secret duo to peoples reaction to what the research can have and to the unknowing and uncontrollable effects they get. We will be shock to see what they actually allready discovered and that have never been published.

 

So no, specific GL-Gm haven't been done on cows, but a exact similiar one has been done. They did it, then used origenal parent info to trace it back and see whats the difference.

Witrot2008-03-11 13:31:45

[boeing]

I don't know much of the 2 but I would go with the Schwinn personally. Ride them. The hijack police might come and report you for hijacking the thread. You can start a new one if you want; then yopu will get a ton of info.