Thaba DH track closing

[nigelhicks]

One of the issues I always had with GP tracks was that a small group of "Hardcore" riders would make tracks that were unrideable to the average guys just wanting to get into the sport without killing themselves. It was almost like an Ego issue.

 

Even Helderkruin suffered at the hands of of the few hectic riders. While there was enough space to build new big features, what happened was that some of the more managele features got modified until they were really scary to normal people.

 

This exclusive attitude has directly resulted in the lack of support experienced in Gauteng. Its a real shame, but not a surprise.

 

This right here is always the issue ... 

 

At a regional (and even to some extent national level) trails need to cater for ALL riders experienced and noobie ... Thats why we try and give the young guns some wiggle room to build big stuff on our tracks but make sure that if they do there are B and C line options for the less experienced ... (I generally come behind them and do this, but at least they are made aware) ... You build a track where the B and C lines are too long and diverted and you wont get guys coming to an event as unless they hit the big stuff its not even worth them racing ... As Si Paton from BDS said in his PinkBike interview .... "The one big rule when it comes to your customer is this: You've got to make them feel important." If you can have a trail that the big guys ride and enjoy, but the noobs can ride too and dont hit one big jump but give all the smaller B-lines ones a bash and get to the bottom in one piece they too will have a massive grin and feel like kings and queens ... this is what you want ....

At Karkloof we had 2 old ballies racing the enduro and I have seen them around for years ... so managed to get them to enter the DH ... they both walked part of the rock garden, BUT they had an absolute blast ... the one mentioned to me on the shuttle that he never thought he would ever do DH and here he is wondering why he didnt start earlier ... and that was all down to options on the track that suited every level of rider .... 

[NGUTF]

I ride Thaba every weekend and never see any DH's riding there, see loads of enduro type bikes but very seldom DH bikes. Sad that its closing though. Would be great to have a venue in JHB that caters for all types of dirt riding. 

[NGUTF]

 

 

Downhill mountain biking as a sport will not grow in SA unless more Blue & Green rated tracks are built for beginners and weekend warriors.( Parents would also be more inclined to let their kids do the sport.)

 

And there is potential to get more SAFA's on the DH circuit internationally, we already have Minnaar and Neethiling (and a lady I think) representing so if we could get tracks to cater for all as mentioned in other posts then the possibility of more of our riders going international seems ver possible. 

[Super_mil]

One of the issues I always had with GP tracks was that a small group of "Hardcore" riders would make tracks that were unrideable to the average guys just wanting to get into the sport without killing themselves. It was almost like an Ego issue.

 

Even Helderkruin suffered at the hands of of the few hectic riders. While there was enough space to build new big features, what happened was that some of the more managele features got modified until they were really scary to normal people.

 

This exclusive attitude has directly resulted in the lack of support experienced in Gauteng. Its a real shame, but not a surprise.

With all due respect Nolan, the majority of the building (in JHB) is done by the "hardcore" group you mention. Also when I was getting into DH I never felt the "hardcore" group were unapproachable (particularly the JHB/PTA crew). In fact they are super supportive of any new face that turns up. So building your own easier lines I don't think would ever have been a problem.

That said I agree with the feeling that a lot of tracks are binary (in general in SA, but it is improving), you either can do the obstacle or you cannot and when you try and cannot it often hurts.

 

We have to keep in mind that we're such a small minority of the greater MTB discipline. DH is not a money spinner so 'the industry' does not send (any/much) money our way, nor are event organizers interested (no financial reward), so 99% of the work for DH is done by riders who get nothing back. In fact generally they end up putting their own cash into the dirt. So, people often build for themselves and as such the 'hardcore' bunch build lines that will test them, but this does not help the sport develop, so a bit of a catch 22.

 

It would be very cool if more riders turned up to help build, that way novice riders can influence the lines that they'll be riding and perhaps get some direction from the 'hardcore' bunch on how to improve (both riding & building).

[G00SE]

With all due respect Nolan, the majority of the building (in JHB) is done by the "hardcore" group you mention. Also when I was getting into DH I never felt the "hardcore" group were unapproachable (particularly the JHB/PTA crew). In fact they are super supportive of any new face that turns up. So building your own easier lines I don't think would ever have been a problem.

That said I agree with the feeling that a lot of tracks are binary (in general in SA, but it is improving), you either can do the obstacle or you cannot and when you try and cannot it often hurts.

 

We have to keep in mind that we're such a small minority of the greater MTB discipline. DH is not a money spinner so 'the industry' does not send (any/much) money our way, nor are event organizers interested (no financial reward), so 99% of the work for DH is done by riders who get nothing back. In fact generally they end up putting their own cash into the dirt. So, people often build for themselves and as such the 'hardcore' bunch build lines that will test them, but this does not help the sport develop, so a bit of a catch 22.

 

It would be very cool if more riders turned up to help build, that way novice riders can influence the lines that they'll be riding and perhaps get some direction from the 'hardcore' bunch on how to improve (both riding & building).

 

 

Exactly this!

 

If you're not prepared to get stuck in and build, then don't complain if the tracks are un-rideable for you....

These guys spend hours of their time building stuff that's fun for them to ride, why must they spend another extra day building lines they would never ride?

In my experience, the DH'ers are generally super friendly and always happy to help anyone who's looking to get into the sport.

So, if you're prepared to get dirty and build some easier lines on some of the existing tracks, I'm sure the support will be there - then everyone wins.

[nigelhicks]

Exactly this!

 

If you're not prepared to get stuck in and build, then don't complain if the tracks are un-rideable for you....

These guys spend hours of their time building stuff that's fun for them to ride, why must they spend another extra day building lines they would never ride?

In my experience, the DH'ers are generally super friendly and always happy to help anyone who's looking to get into the sport.

So, if you're prepared to get dirty and build some easier lines on some of the existing tracks, I'm sure the support will be there - then everyone wins.

 

I think this is the BIG issue at the moment ... I agree with you that building something, but then having to build a B-line that you wont really use is a HACK ... but it is the B-line that makes the track sustainable ... and this is the Key factor to it ... without it the track will become very binary as Super Mil mentioned as you then marginalise 80 to 90% of the rider numbers as they cannot (or will not) attempt the obstacle that you have just made.

 

If every DH track has proper well thought out B-lines (that honestly take less than half the time to make compared with the main obstacle), we wouldnt have these issues. 

[Pikey]

I think this is the BIG issue at the moment ... I agree with you that building something, but then having to build a B-line that you wont really use is a HACK ... but it is the B-line that makes the track sustainable ... and this is the Key factor to it ... without it the track will become very binary as Super Mil mentioned as you then marginalise 80 to 90% of the rider numbers as they cannot (or will not) attempt the obstacle that you have just made.

 

If every DH track has proper well thought out B-lines (that honestly take less than half the time to make compared with the main obstacle), we wouldnt have these issues.

 

couldnt agree more,if no B lines available,the avg noob will just say bugger it and not attempt it. I ride Thaba very often ,then decided to try part of the downhill course. Fell on the first landing ( lack of experience or more like probably non at all) Hurt my self and have never been back. Decided it's time for lessons and still won't go back to the downhill course.

 

Know matter how much some of want to do this maybe it's just out of our range even with skills training. And to to me thaba is hectic,no B lines or baby steps on that course.

[Super_mil]

I think we're all on the same page then:

 

1. We need alternate (safe & yet fun & challenging) lines. 
2. It would be great if more guys & girls (of all riding ability) turned up for build days

• Speeds up building
• Helps to get fresh ideas into the dirt
• skills transfer (building & riding)
• Appreciation for the effort involved

Ironically enough Nige gets it in the ear for tracks that are too tame so he ultimately he can't win. The 'hardcore' think tracks are too easy and the noobs think the tracks are unrideable  . 

[G00SE]

I think this is the BIG issue at the moment ... I agree with you that building something, but then having to build a B-line that you wont really use is a HACK ... but it is the B-line that makes the track sustainable ... and this is the Key factor to it ... without it the track will become very binary as Super Mil mentioned as you then marginalise 80 to 90% of the rider numbers as they cannot (or will not) attempt the obstacle that you have just made.

 

If every DH track has proper well thought out B-lines (that honestly take less than half the time to make compared with the main obstacle), we wouldnt have these issues. 

 

Yes, as super_mil says, its a bit of a catch 22...

It is just so difficult to get guys to help with build days, most people want to ride, but don't want to get their hands dirty building.

 

Maybe this is a good place to mention..... we will be at Hakahana tomorrow to do some work on the enduro lines, so if anyone wants to put their money where there mouths are - bring a spade

[nigelhicks]

Maybe this is a good place to mention..... we will be at Hakahana tomorrow to do some work on the enduro lines, so if anyone wants to put their money where there mouths are - bring a spade

 

Hahahaha

 

Yip ... and we will be at St Ives in the morning working on the Enduro stages for the next provincial and then on the DH after that ... So if any KZN okes want to spy some of the enduro trails ... better bring your spade and rake. 

[nolipoli]

With all due respect Nolan, the majority of the building (in JHB) is done by the "hardcore" group you mention. Also when I was getting into DH I never felt the "hardcore" group were unapproachable (particularly the JHB/PTA crew). In fact they are super supportive of any new face that turns up. So building your own easier lines I don't think would ever have been a problem.

That said I agree with the feeling that a lot of tracks are binary (in general in SA, but it is improving), you either can do the obstacle or you cannot and when you try and cannot it often hurts.

 

We have to keep in mind that we're such a small minority of the greater MTB discipline. DH is not a money spinner so 'the industry' does not send (any/much) money our way, nor are event organizers interested (no financial reward), so 99% of the work for DH is done by riders who get nothing back. In fact generally they end up putting their own cash into the dirt. So, people often build for themselves and as such the 'hardcore' bunch build lines that will test them, but this does not help the sport develop, so a bit of a catch 22.

 

It would be very cool if more riders turned up to help build, that way novice riders can influence the lines that they'll be riding and perhaps get some direction from the 'hardcore' bunch on how to improve (both riding & building).

Don't get me wrong - I agree completely about only a few dedicated riders climbing in. When I started DH, I put in my time on build days, often helping build features that I only hoped I would ride one day.

 

I cooled a lot on the DH scene because I genuinely felt I was getting too nervous of injury on the courses that were getting built. Unfortunately I am anywhere between 10 and 20 years older than most of the DH riders nowadays, and I promise you, I can feel it.

 

I know that the "hard core" riders need a challenge, but when they are building, they should think about adding new tougher features rather than modifying existing ones. That way, we would end up with well developed DH tracks that would be rideable AND REWARDING to a broad range of riders. Not so "Binary", as you say.

[NicoBoshoff]

Exactly this!

 

If you're not prepared to get stuck in and build, then don't complain if the tracks are un-rideable for you....

These guys spend hours of their time building stuff that's fun for them to ride, why must they spend another extra day building lines they would never ride?

In my experience, the DH'ers are generally super friendly and always happy to help anyone who's looking to get into the sport.

So, if you're prepared to get dirty and build some easier lines on some of the existing tracks, I'm sure the support will be there - then everyone wins.

Yeah, but...don't then be surprised if the track gets closed for lack of use.

 

All our tracks in Paarl can be ridden by anyone.  The big features have fair chicken lines that (on the race line especially) still penalize you but you still feel that you're riding a DH track.

 

If you build just for yourself, I will never call you out on it.  Just don't be surprised with the results in the long run.

 

I am still struggling to get locals at our trails to see it this way, but at least we are getting there and the tracks will only benefit and I can say with reasonable certainty that in a year's time they will still be open and still be maintained because everyone wants to ride them.

 

Come to any Paarl shuttle day and you'll see all sorts riding all the trails, having equal amounts of fun.  That to me is a win.  Not seeing if me and my two friends can send a 20 foot gap.

 

As my one friend says "You don't build a clientele by putting them in hospital"

[nigelhicks]

Yeah, but...don't then be surprised if the track gets closed for lack of use.

 

All our tracks in Paarl can be ridden by anyone.  The big features have fair chicken lines that (on the race line especially) still penalize you but you still feel that you're riding a DH track.

 

If you build just for yourself, I will never call you out on it.  Just don't be surprised with the results in the long run.

 

I am still struggling to get locals at our trails to see it this way, but at least we are getting there and the tracks will only benefit and I can say with reasonable certainty that in a year's time they will still be open and still be maintained because everyone wants to ride them.

 

Come to any Paarl shuttle day and you'll see all sorts riding all the trails, having equal amounts of fun.  That to me is a win.  Not seeing if me and my two friends can send a 20 foot gap.

 

As my one friend says "You don't build a clientele by putting them in hospital"

 

BUT - on the flip side of that coin ... we MUST NOT DUMB DOWN OUR TRAILS to suit the said general rider ... We still need to let the youngsters loose to build scary sh.t that we look at and say "HELL NO!!!" .. In the back of our minds though thinking "Faark imagine how rad it would be to hit that" .... As long as we have those lines with intermediate stuff for the middle guys and then an easy option we will grow the sport exponentially ... But we cannot forget that we need to push the sports limits as well as the riders.

[nigelhicks]

Its a big one of these to get it right

 

[G00SE]

Yeah, but...don't then be surprised if the track gets closed for lack of use.

 

All our tracks in Paarl can be ridden by anyone.  The big features have fair chicken lines that (on the race line especially) still penalize you but you still feel that you're riding a DH track.

 

If you build just for yourself, I will never call you out on it.  Just don't be surprised with the results in the long run.

 

I am still struggling to get locals at our trails to see it this way, but at least we are getting there and the tracks will only benefit and I can say with reasonable certainty that in a year's time they will still be open and still be maintained because everyone wants to ride them.

 

Come to any Paarl shuttle day and you'll see all sorts riding all the trails, having equal amounts of fun.  That to me is a win.  Not seeing if me and my two friends can send a 20 foot gap.

 

As my one friend says "You don't build a clientele by putting them in hospital"

 

This is the sad reality of things here in SA.

Maybe we need to focus more on getting people involved with organised build days - if you can get 10 - 15 guys together, you can accomplish quite a lot in one day, but usually its only 3 or 4 guys working their butts off, and you only build maybe 1 feature in a day.

Its an awesome feeling getting to ride trails that you actually had a hand in creating!

[Airborne Darren]

Yup, yup, yup. More accessible lines, mean more riders, mean more sustainable trails. 

 

The best two days I have ever spent on my bike were exploring the trails around Karkloof, and I didn't even get to half of them. But that's because you have a group of guys that understand how to attract riders to a region (Hilton, Mark, Nigel etc). XC, Trail/Enduro, and DH riders are all catered for.