joburgnel Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 Hi everybody, as a newcomer to the MTB world, I would like some advice from you PRO MTB Bikers. I've bought me and my wife each an entry level MTB, and I am aware that the components on our bikes are not the higher quality. Don't get me wrong I love riding my bike and enjoy every second I spend riding it, the only thing that bugs me is when we go riding in the rougher areas my chain seems to slap around like it seems to be loose. Is this because of the low end rear derailer? And if so, can I upgrade just the rear derailer without changing major parts like the cassette?At the moment I've got the Shimano Tourney tx800 RD.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 yo Nel. Firstly, welcome to the hub. Always good to have new blood. Okay - now on to the nitty gritty. Unfortunately, without going for an older spec 8 speed derailleur with a slightly stronger spring (I assume it's 8 sp - 24 if you take into account the triple crank at the front) like an XT or XTR, you're bang out of luck. The newer gen 8 speed RD's (altus, acera etc) aren't the strongest, and if you're upgrading to get rid of the chain slap, the only thing that will really sort it out from a derailleur perspective is one of the newer 10 or 11 speed rear derailleurs with a "clutch" - essentially a much stronger spring mechanism, designed to work predominately with single chainring (front cog) drivetrains to aid with chain retention (help keep the chain on) and reduce chain slap. You can't go that route without upgrading pretty much everything else on the bike, probably extending to the cranks as well, given that 10 sp chains are that much narrower than an 8 speed one, and the chainring will simply be too wide to fit a 10 speed chain. That's obviously an expensive exercise, and can run into the thousands - more than the bike cost new, for certain, unless you find some great 2nd hand deals. Now - for the easier fix. Chain length. You'll probably find that your chain is simply too long for the gearing, and that the rear derailleur simply isn't strong enough to overcome the extra slack in the chain. I presume it mostly happens when you are in the more difficult gears, which is a sure sign that the chain is too long. The easiest thing to do would be to go to a bike shop in the area, and ask them to ensure that the chain is the correct length for the bike. They'll probably take a couple of links out at most (normally enough to fix the problem) and fit something called a Quicklink to the chain, thereby connecting it again. Another "fix" if the chain still rattles around like a 2 year old's tamborine, is to wrap an old tube around the chainstay - this deadens the noise of the chain slapping on the chainstay. An easy way to tell if the chain is too long - put it in the most difficult gear, both front and back, and then take a pic and upload it here. We'll be able to tell you if it is too long or not. It's generally too long if the derailleur extends more than 60 degrees rearwards in the most difficult gear. That means there's not enough tension in the system.
Phatman Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 Hi! I'm no "Pro MTB Biker" but I'll give it a shot. The easiest, cheapest solution woud be to cut up an old tube and wrap it around the chainstay on the drive side where the chain is hitting the frame. You can secure it with cable ties. Replacing the derailleur and shifter will give you crisper shifting but it could end up quite expensive. Bear in mind that if you go from 9 to 10 speed for example, you"ll have to replace chain, cassette etc as well. Also remember that if you decide to purchase a SRAM rear derailleur, you'll need a SRAM shifter as well (Shimano shifter won't be compatible).
CAAD4 Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 Welcome. You're at the right place. Lots of Prous here...
joburgnel Posted April 17, 2016 Author Posted April 17, 2016 yo Nel. Firstly, welcome to the hub. Always good to have new blood. Okay - now on to the nitty gritty. Unfortunately, without going for an older spec 8 speed derailleur with a slightly stronger spring (I assume it's 8 sp - 24 if you take into account the triple crank at the front) like an XT or XTR, you're bang out of luck. The newer gen 8 speed RD's (altus, acera etc) aren't the strongest, and if you're upgrading to get rid of the chain slap, the only thing that will really sort it out from a derailleur perspective is one of the newer 10 or 11 speed rear derailleurs with a "clutch" - essentially a much stronger spring mechanism, designed to work predominately with single chainring (front cog) drivetrains to aid with chain retention (help keep the chain on) and reduce chain slap. You can't go that route without upgrading pretty much everything else on the bike, probably extending to the cranks as well, given that 10 sp chains are that much narrower than an 8 speed one, and the chainring will simply be too wide to fit a 10 speed chain. That's obviously an expensive exercise, and can run into the thousands - more than the bike cost new, for certain, unless you find some great 2nd hand deals. Now - for the easier fix. Chain length. You'll probably find that your chain is simply too long for the gearing, and that the rear derailleur simply isn't strong enough to overcome the extra slack in the chain. I presume it mostly happens when you are in the more difficult gears, which is a sure sign that the chain is too long. The easiest thing to do would be to go to a bike shop in the area, and ask them to ensure that the chain is the correct length for the bike. They'll probably take a couple of links out at most (normally enough to fix the problem) and fit something called a Quicklink to the chain, thereby connecting it again. Another "fix" if the chain still rattles around like a 2 year old's tamborine, is to wrap an old tube around the chainstay - this deadens the noise of the chain slapping on the chainstay. An easy way to tell if the chain is too long - put it in the most difficult gear, both front and back, and then take a pic and upload it here. We'll be able to tell you if it is too long or not. It's generally too long if the derailleur extends more than 60 degrees rearwards in the most difficult gear. That means there's not enough tension in the system. Thanks for this info. I did already fit an old tube to the feame which is helping but I saw other bikes witk a lot less chain slap then mine and yes I have a 8 speed setup at the back. I will upload a photo as per your request and will ask thw lbs if they can have a look at the chain length. From what you wxplained it sounds like I should just try to live with it as to replace the necessary parts qil cost more than the bike. Thanks again foe all the info
joburgnel Posted April 17, 2016 Author Posted April 17, 2016 Just a quick question, how do I upload a photo?
joburgnel Posted April 17, 2016 Author Posted April 17, 2016 Ok I've uploaded some photos pleas let me know what you see. Thanks again
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 okay, that's definitely not a chain length issue. That chain's perfectly sized. Unfortunately it seems as if the only way out of it is to upgrade your way out, which will be moerse expensive unless you find some really good deals (I'm talking at least R 2,500 here) You can either learn to live with it, and stick slightly more tube on the chainstay, or upgrade. When does it rattle around? In which gears?
joburgnel Posted April 17, 2016 Author Posted April 17, 2016 okay, that's definitely not a chain length issue. That chain's perfectly sized. Unfortunately it seems as if the only way out of it is to upgrade your way out, which will be moerse expensive unless you find some really good deals (I'm talking at least R 2,500 here) You can either learn to live with it, and stick slightly more tube on the chainstay, or upgrade. When does it rattle around? In which gears?I'm normally in middle in front in between 3-6 at rear when I ride, what bugs me is that because of the chain being so ''loose'' it might bounce off or is this unlikely to happen? The noice is not so bad since I fitted the tube so I can live with it. Obviously as we get fitter and better we like to push ourselves harder and maybe by then I would have saved up some cash to upgrade to better quality groupset.
joburgnel Posted April 17, 2016 Author Posted April 17, 2016 okay, that's definitely not a chain length issue. That chain's perfectly sized. Unfortunately it seems as if the only way out of it is to upgrade your way out, which will be moerse expensive unless you find some really good deals (I'm talking at least R 2,500 here) You can either learn to live with it, and stick slightly more tube on the chainstay, or upgrade. When does it rattle around? In which gears?I'm normally in middle in front in between 3-6 at rear when I ride, what bugs me is that because of the chain being so ''loose'' it might bounce off or is this unlikely to happen? The noice is not so bad since I fitted the tube so I can live with it. Obviously as we get fitter and better we like to push ourselves harder and maybe by then I would have saved up some cash to upgrade to better quality groupset.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 I'm normally in middle in front in between 3-6 at rear when I ride, what bugs me is that because of the chain being so ''loose'' it might bounce off or is this unlikely to happen? The noice is not so bad since I fitted the tube so I can live with it. Obviously as we get fitter and better we like to push ourselves harder and maybe by then I would have saved up some cash to upgrade to better quality groupset.unlikely to happen given that there's a front derailleur keeping it in place.
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