Stricker Posted October 5, 2016 Share Only experienced riders are critical and questions the seeding boost that comes with the PPA hill challenge.They must've seen some tough things out there on the roads over the seasons. Not everybody believes it's a bad thing heyCome I tell you what I think happened and reason for negative vibe towards HC events. Maybe I'm wrong? Guys been riding for 5-10-15 years. Working he's ass of against a "unfair" system to finally reach A. Only for system to change and make a strong rider reach A( ride next to him) in way less time, making the older rider feel that he doesn't deserve to be there as he didn't get there the same way. Think about is:Killarney , you can start where you want.W/P racing..start where you want . Why only picking on HC?Another point, in order for you to get a A seeding from HC.. you need to get up those hills@ +- 4wpkg.. that doesn't happen overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devocean Posted October 5, 2016 Share As somebody who currently has an "A" seeding of solely based on a hill climb, I still disagree with it. Before the hill climbs, the only way to move up the alphabet was to race and to finish well in your group and it took hard work and not just sitting on wheels. In ideal conditions (no wind), most people in B, C, D groups could finish with the A bunch, so it's not just about fitness, its about the amount of racing experience you get while moving up the alphabet (and if you're lazy and just sit on wheels, you'd never move up), which I think some of the guys in the A bunch are lacking. And yes, I do think you can do well in a hill climb without having necessary skill to race safely. I don't think it's too far fetched that somebody got into cycling a year ago, super keen and trained a lot on their own, got fit, maybe did a couple of races here and there and then got a good seeding on a hill climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted October 5, 2016 Share the ppa fund ride is an artificial race - seeding was introduced many years ago because the massed start (like in running) just did not work. we were first seeded according to finishing position in the funride , then timing came along and made it a bit more complicated. now we have as many races as we have seeded groups and everyone wants to go faster - which is not a bad thing. but the ethos of a cycle race is to get over the finishing line first - the time it takes should not count.regarding the HC - i know a club member who started cycling a year ago and is now a B ppa seeded rider but still refuses/scared to sit in the middle of our bunch during our club training rides. his only aim is to become a A seeded rider. Boom! Phrase of the day Spirited bunch ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricker Posted October 5, 2016 Share I know someone who got an A from the hillclimb and only lasted 18 minutes because he grabbed a whole bunch of brakes on a roller and took out two riders and punctured. Was this he's first ever race ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skubarra Posted October 5, 2016 Share Why only picking on HC?Another point, in order for you to get a A seeding from HC.. you need to get up those hills@ +- 4wpkg.. that doesn't happen overnight. Stricker if you cannot comprehend that there is more to road cycling than how much watts you can push out then yes, you are 100% correct - a HC should suffice perfectly for seeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted October 5, 2016 Share Come I tell you what I think happened and reason for negative vibe towards HC events. Maybe I'm wrong? Guys been riding for 5-10-15 years. Working he's ass of against a "unfair" system to finally reach A. Only for system to change and make a strong rider reach A( ride next to him) in way less time, making the older rider feel that he doesn't deserve to be there as he didn't get there the same way. Think about is:Killarney , you can start where you want.W/P racing..start where you want . Why only picking on HC?Another point, in order for you to get a A seeding from HC.. you need to get up those hills@ +- 4wpkg.. that doesn't happen overnight. Yes, Stricker In cycling etiquette and culture, there is a pecking order. Ask any newbie WorldTour PRO or stagiare who is in the bunch for the first time as he fights to keep his space and someone like Gilbert can float through the bunch like Moses through the Red Sea as space is made for him. The main issue is safety. Which come from skills. Built on experience and learning lessons over time. Both points above are true. Not wrong. Just very true. It's some of the tradition and best practices in the sport of cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricker Posted October 5, 2016 Share the ppa fund ride is an artificial race - seeding was introduced many years ago because the massed start (like in running) just did not work. we were first seeded according to finishing position in the funride , then timing came along and made it a bit more complicated. now we have as many races as we have seeded groups and everyone wants to go faster - which is not a bad thing. but the ethos of a cycle race is to get over the finishing line first - the time it takes should not count.regarding the HC - i know a club member who started cycling a year ago and is now a B ppa seeded rider but still refuses/scared to sit in the middle of our bunch during our club training rides. his only aim is to become a A seeded rider.I actually know who you are talking about...small world The real sad part is that he actually had a crash during a race, not at all he's fault as I was sitting just behind him and nothing he could do to avoid it, so that would have pushed him even further to back of bunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonian1984 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Stricker if you cannot comprehend that there is more to road cycling than how much watts you can push out then yes, you are 100% correct - a HC should suffice perfectly for seeding. Agreed, it goes further than just pushing out watts. A noob can join PPA, do a hill climb and get a high seeding due to fitness levels. Again, seeding is just a way of seperating the masses in funrides. Last year when I enquired about racing in the USA, they told me regardless of FTP, training volume etc, you have to start in CAT 5(lowest). To get to CAT 4 you have to finish 10 Mass start events. Then to get to CAT 3 you have to get20 points or have experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top-10 finishes with fields of 30 riders or more; or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. With PPA seedings we have a phenomenal tool to overinflate already inflated egos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricker Posted October 5, 2016 Share Stricker if you cannot comprehend that there is more to road cycling than how much watts you can push out then yes, you are 100% correct - a HC should suffice perfectly for seeding. I told you in the beginning I'm trolling a little.. don't take it so serious , I can easily fight for HC is rubbish as well, asked you for valid reasons why you disagree. No need to get personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Cycling Athletic Club Posted October 5, 2016 Share I actually know who you are talking about...small world The real sad part is that he actually had a crash during a race, not at all he's fault as I was sitting just behind him and nothing he could do to avoid it, so that would have pushed him even further to back of bunchhe has the potential to become a good cyclist but wont unless he gets over that mental block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricker Posted October 5, 2016 Share Agreed, it goes further than just pushing out watts. A noob can join PPA, do a hill climb and get a high seeding due to fitness levels. Again, seeding is just a way of seperating the masses in funrides. Last year when I enquired about racing in the USA, they told me regardless of FTP, training volume etc, you have to start in CAT 5(lowest). To get to CAT 4 you have to finish 10 Mass start events. Then to get to CAT 3 you have to get20 points or have experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top-10 finishes with fields of 30 riders or more; or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. With PPA seedings we have a phenomenal tool to overinflate already inflated egos Same with PPA , when you start showing your FTP and stave files not going to help you..you will start in a Z.. same same How many of these mass start events do they have per year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonian1984 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Same with PPA , when you start showing your FTP and stave files not going to help you..you will start in a Z.. same same How many of these mass start events do they have per year?They have lots.Most gran fondos(funrides) there arent timed as there is no need to seed riders, the more serious riders are in racing catergories, but most of the time these events arent run together. The criteria to move up in categories only apply when doing sanctioned races, like WP league etc With PPA its not really the same, as is the reason for this thread. 1 Hill climb and you top of the pops. Even if it was just doing funrides, you can do 3 or 4 good times and move up quite substantially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricker Posted October 5, 2016 Share They have lots.Most gran fondos(funrides) there arent timed as there is no need to seed riders, the more serious riders are in racing catergories, but most of the time these events arent run together. The criteria to move up in categories only apply when doing sanctioned races, like WP league etc With PPA its not really the same, as is the reason for this thread. 1 Hill climb and you top of the pops. Even if it was just doing funrides, you can do 3 or 4 good times and move up quite substantially. If PPA had " LOTS"events a year , the guys doing well in the HC will be flying up those soup numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponx861 Posted October 5, 2016 Share all I know is I went up two notches after the Taal Monument hill climb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skubarra Posted October 5, 2016 Share I told you in the beginning I'm trolling a little.. don't take it so serious , I can easily fight for HC is rubbish as well, asked you for valid reasons why you disagree. No need to get personal. Nothing personal, if you can easily come up with reasons why HC is rubbish why ask us to do it on your behalf? You are seemingly stuck on the idea that the old system is "unfair" and it takes years of riding to get to A and HC's are the only or best way to bypass this. As many others have also pointed out, it is not that difficult and the benefit to everybody around you is that you are a bit more experienced by the time you get in A For me its only a safety issue, not about jealousy or unfairness - similar to the mtb'ers who think roadies are just jealous when they create havoc in a group with their mtb. Like you pointed out, experienced riders also cause crashes but are certainly less likely to do so than newbies, anything that increase my odds of being in a crash I dislike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted October 5, 2016 Share All u guys moaning about Hill climbs when all I want is a pan flat individual TT with a beta of 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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