Rear shock question

[brumby]

yeah, you need to set the pressure according to your weight, so that it has the desired amount of sag for the type of riding you do.

 

For XC / Marathon = 20-25% sag when seated (majority of focus is on climbing and in a seated position)

 

For trail riding - 20-25% sag when in the "attack position" (out the saddle, weight centered on the bike, elbows bent)

 

For more plush riding (aggresive trail) - 25-30% sag in the attack position. 

 

Once you have that sorted, set the rebound damping to suit the pressure you're at and the trails you're riding. More varying terrain & bumpier / more successive hits = higher rebound speed (more rabbit) as you don't want the shock to "pack down" into the travel. Less aggressive terrain means you can have a slightly slower rebound setting. Same goes for speed. The faster you're going and the harder you're hitting stuff, the faster you want the rebound to be.

 

If you set your shock to stop bobbing whilst you're climbing, you're setting it to be a hardtail and forgoing all the benefits of climbing with a full susser - superior traction, better rollover on technical sections, better energy conservation. 

I've tried your method numerous times, sat with tape measures,and verniers and never been happy with the results - now try my method using a MODERATE tar uphill for the setup. Emphasis on Moderate.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Why's that?

'cos you're then essentially locking it out by pumping as much air into it as possible. The only time it'll be without bob during pedalling is if it has max pressure in the can, and even then maybe not. 

 

Some suspension designs compress into the travel when pedalling, some don't. Those who compress into the travel utilise a progressive shock curve and the shock's "platform" to provide a sort of block against excessive bob when pedalling in the "sag zone". Some (like some VPP / DW etc) have a design that essentially extends the shock when pedalling, thereby providing a better "pedalling platform" and not relying on the shock's tune as much. 

 

Chainring size also matters - a bike generally pedals better when in a smaller 'ring than in a larger ring, as the smaller ring sits below the pivot point, which then means that it has the characteristics mentioned above (pulling the swingarm DOWN and extending rather than compressing the shock) which is also why the advent of 1x drivetrains is only reaaaally suited to more modern suspension designs with higher pivot locations. 

 

There's a lot more to this, but essentially what I'm saying (and I'm sure JXV will agree) is that setting your shock's pressure so that it is high enough to prevent bob is not a good thing to do at all. Rather just get a shock with lockout capabilities, or a firm / trail / open setting. Those affect the compression setting, and in some cases (like with the Cane Creek / Fox x2 / Push ElevenSix) the rebound settings as well. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I've tried your method numerous times, sat with tape measures,and verniers and never been happy with the results - now try my method using a MODERATE tar uphill for the setup. Emphasis on Moderate.

what shock are you using? Do you have any bottomless bands / volume spacers in it? What type of climbing are you talking about? Seated / standing? How smooth is your pedal stroke in this test? 

 

If you're using a Fox CTD shock, in performance guise, then there's your problem. It's got a notoriously bad compression platform, and blows through travel like a fat kid through cupcakes after a parent-backed hunger strike. 

 

How heavy are you? 

 

So many variables to consider. If you're happy with pumping it to warp moer, and you're concentrating on road and / or gravel travel rides, then great - it's working for you. But for general XC / trail / whatever - that's a bad approach.

 

Disclaimer - some shocks are just badly suited for the high leverage ratio of a giant and other comparable bikes, due to the bad compression platforms. Case in point was the FOX DHX5 Air I had on my old Reign X. Despite pumping to max pressure of 300psi, it just would. not. pedal. And it blew through travel faster than Amy Winehouse through the FBI's coke stash... It would have needed vast amounts of volume spacers in order to make it suitable for the frame. Some shocks just aren't tuned for the frame. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

fark, and I promised myself I'd limit my time on here, cos it's soaking up so much of my day

[brumby]

'cos you're then essentially locking it out by pumping as much air into it as possible. The only time it'll be without bob during pedalling is if it has max pressure in the can, and even then maybe not. 

 

Some suspension designs compress into the travel when pedalling, some don't. Those who compress into the travel utilise a progressive shock curve and the shock's "platform" to provide a sort of block against excessive bob when pedalling in the "sag zone". Some (like some VPP / DW etc) have a design that essentially extends the shock when pedalling, thereby providing a better "pedalling platform" and not relying on the shock's tune as much. 

 

Chainring size also matters - a bike generally pedals better when in a smaller 'ring than in a larger ring, as the smaller ring sits below the pivot point, which then means that it has the characteristics mentioned above (pulling the swingarm DOWN and extending rather than compressing the shock) which is also why the advent of 1x drivetrains is only reaaaally suited to more modern suspension designs with higher pivot locations. 

 

There's a lot more to this, but essentially what I'm saying (and I'm sure JXV will agree) is that setting your shock's pressure so that it is high enough to prevent bob is not a good thing to do at all. Rather just get a shock with lockout capabilities, or a firm / trail / open setting. Those affect the compression setting, and in some cases (like with the Cane Creek / Fox x2 / Push ElevenSix) the rebound settings as well. 

U've got it wrong - once the bike is setup using the method described it is nowhere near a hardtail - and if stationary with the rider on you will see that there's sag on the suspension -  

I have just taken the RShock off my sons Anthem to be replaced with a Fox. I will take the pressure in it tomorrow - nowhere near what you are expecting and very much in the normal range of what you are advising.

[the nerd]

fark, and I promised myself I'd limit my time on here, cos it's soaking up so much of my day

 

hahahahaha thats a good one 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

U've got it wrong - once the bike is setup using the method described it is nowhere near a hardtail - and if stationary with the rider on you will see that there's sag on the suspension -  

I have just taken the RShock off my sons Anthem to be replaced with a Fox. I will take the pressure in it tomorrow - nowhere near what you are expecting and very much in the normal range of what you are advising.

What RS? What Fox? What tune is / was the RS? What tune is the Fox? All things that could point as to why you're experiencing what you're experiencing. 

[brumby]

What RS? What Fox? What tune is / was the RS? What tune is the Fox? All things that could point as to why you're experiencing what you're experiencing. 

Myle's you not listening - But here goes - My sons Anthem Advanced - Monarch RT3, My Anthem X - Float DPS. As they come from Giant. We are not experiencing any problems.The method I am using is a simpler method in my opinion of getting the performance out of the suspension which you have described without sitting there and measuring sag at mm for mm until youv'e hit the sweet spot. To highlight this I will give you the pressure in the RT3 tomorrow to show you how far off you are in your assumptions that we are pushing the pressures too high.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Myle's you not listening - But here goes - My sons Anthem Advanced - Monarch RT3, My Anthem X - Float DPS. As they come from Giant. We are not experiencing any problems.The method I am using is a simpler method in my opinion of getting the performance out of the suspension which you have described without sitting there and measuring sag at mm for mm until youv'e hit the sweet spot. To highlight this I will give you the pressure in the RT3 tomorrow to show you how far off you are in your assumptions that we are pushing the pressures too high.

thanks, but no thanks. If it works for you, then fine. But setting a shock pressure by bob isn't the best way of doing it. Firstly, the reasons I've alluded to above. Secondly, its very difficult to gauge whilst riding. It's a very subjective thing, and isn't immediately noticeable by those riding next to / behind you. Thirdly, bob should be eliminated by tuning the compression & rebound settings by way of a lockout lever / propedal lever / 3 position compression lever etc. Shock pressure should be set by sag as alluded to in my previous post. 

 

But again - if it works for you, great. 

[Cat2forLife]

The whole point of having suspension on the back is for it to suspend. The suspension cannot work properly if it isn't set up correctly. And I'm sorry, but just pumping it until it stops suspending is not the correct way to set up suspension. Should've bought a hardtail then.

 

Edit: Also remember, if it is pumped too hard and hits an obstacle (which is bound to happen on the trail) you could pop a seal, or worse.

[JXV]

I'm kinda with Myles on this one but maybe you guys sre talking a little at cross purposes.

1 - OP's shock should be serviced if it has not been serviced within the last 50 h of riding time.

2 - with the shock in OPEN setting, some bob while pedalling uphill/hard is to be expected. I would set Sag somewhere between 20 to 30% according to rider preference when sitting normally on the bike. I have several friends that ride Anthems (both RS and Fox) and they are happy when I set them up this way. This mode used to descend and ride rough trail.

3- in Propedal/Firm/Climb mode the amount of bob when pedalling hard or uphill should be significantly reduced (but not zero) if the shock is healthy.

4 - yes the air pressure should be adjusted to the weight of the rider. A heavy rider needs more pressure. use the sag range I gave above to get a starting point. Then adjust to your preference.

5 - rebound setting will vary according to rider weight and trail conditions. Only 2 or 3 of the 14 or more click stops will be right for each rider. This is because e.g. the higher pressure needed to suspend a heavy rider in the correct sag range makes the shock rebound faster, so the heavy rider would tend to use a slower range of rebound settings. A light rider will find the best shock response with rebound at the faster end of the range. Shock manufacturers have nice videos on their websites that explain how to make these settings. If you change the shock pressure, rebound speed will change so you will likely also need to change the rebound setting.

6 - if the shock is not serviced dirt gets in and seals/o rings in the mechanism get worn. This can lead to damping fluid bypassing the shimstack/restrictor valves used to control oil flow in the shock when it compresses and extends. Any fluid that bypasses the intended fluid flow path through the mechanism will result in poor damping control that manifests as sloppy performance. Hence the reason why I keep harping on about making sure the maintenance is up to date.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[PhilipV]

You're wasting your time Myles.

If a person uses climbing performance to set up suspension, then he is not your target market for your setup knowledge. He is weighing the value of the pedaling performance far more than the trail riding characteristics of the bike.

 

But who knows, maybe Brumby's thumbsuck method puts him very close to 20-25%sag anyway. That is where the Maestro system works best and may coincide with his pressure settings.

 

To the OP: Maestro system works lekker when set up well, and I honestly believe that you don't really need a lockout on it. I've ridden it on short travel bikes like the anthem and now still do on my Trance, and from own experience I can say that the bob when mashing out of the pedals are minimal, and the traction gained on technical terrain is we'll worth the trade off.

[Fred_MTB]

Yes it it is -

• • Fox Suspension Float DPS A Giant Rear Shock 2016

  • Write the first review

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• • R2792.49

 

 

 

CRC is brilliant , will need to pay vat on imported items when collecting at post office

 

 

 

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[ecotech84]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/d2f3abe7ba60b34b9f365daccdbdfc7b.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/71e6e3bab3f49905f976a110e0d938e7.jpg

 

Here is the rear shock in question .

When i select no.1 it is the hardest the no.2&3 is the same,i feel no difference.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/d2f3abe7ba60b34b9f365daccdbdfc7b.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170105/71e6e3bab3f49905f976a110e0d938e7.jpg

 

Here is the rear shock in question .

When i select no.1 it is the hardest the no.2&3 is the same,i feel no difference.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

then it most likely needs a service, and need to tune your compression and rebound settings to suit your pressure & riding style.  Those RP23's are good shocks - before fox went all CTD befok. 

[Jurgens Smit]

If I may hijack quickly.

 

How effective is the autosag feature on some of the fox equipped specialized bikes?

Reason for asking, it was setup at a specialized store for my bodyweight (as per autosag procedures) now when locked out it bobs. It's especially noticeable when I climb hard out of saddle as if I were to launch a attack.

 

Just some advise before I book a service which may be unnecessary.