Indoor training on a dual sus MTB on a Wahoo Kickr

[RobertWhitehead]

I am going to type out a whole essay to try and explain my point some more. I am not attacking or dissing anyone I am just trying to explain my experience and give some guidance.

 

So let me first give some stats - I have a 26er HT on a Taxc Flow smart trainer. I have been using Sufferfest since 2013 and have completed their 4DP multiple times on said trainer (or all three trainers - I've had a Satori and another Flow which they replaced). On the Satori (which is a semi-smart trainer - it gives the readings on Power, Speed and Cadence but the resistance is manual). On this set-up I actually had it as a single speed - I think I started with a 32T / 14 or something like that. I then found that I maxed the trainer quite easily (now this was perceived max - I would bounce like a mad man on the trainer at 130rpm). 

I then added gears to the bike, I think I went with a 1x9 to add more resistance. With this I also topped out and I then got me the Flow. 

 

Now since I got the Flow I've changed the gears up some more - I went from a 32T to a 34T with 9 at the back and I am still about 200W lower than my max power output I had on the Satori. I have since changed the 34T oval to a 48T and even though I still cant match the original watts I saw on the Satori (which I believe to have given incorrect readings) - I most definitely pedal way way harder and if I put my trainer on L9 (in level mode) and I place my bike in the heaviest gear my cadence drops to in the 60s sometimes even below 55 and I have to really work to get above 65. I can't maintain this for a very long period of time as my legs basically seize up  .

 

The trainer reaches a point where your levels basically start to fall out of range. Lets take my gear ratio and some fictitious values as an example to state my case:

 

I have a 1x9 with a 48T in the front and my FTP according to the 4DP or ramp or Half Monty or whatever test is 250W (this is just an example for the sake of explaining). Now I do a video and the trainer uses my 250W as a guide to adjust the amount of resistance it offers.

 

Will I be able to produce 250W on my gear ratio without any resistance from the trainer? Yip, I would be able to yes. 

Will I be able to produce more than 250W with my gear ratio? Yip, I would be able to yes.

 

So if I do the fitness test in a lighter gear than my 11/48 lets say I do it in a 17/48 and I get an FTP of 250W and I now use the remaining gears (from 17 down to 11) will I not eventually reach a point where I fall out of the range the trainer deems acceptable (lets say between 240-250W)? 

 

The answer is most definitely yes. I have done it and still do it many times. If you do an open video or a "free ride" and the video tells you to maintain 190W you reach a point where if you keep adding resistance (mechanically - gears) the trainer decreases the resistance to keep you within the range up to a point where it "flat lines" and does not decrease any more and then you have the 190W resistance from your trainer along with the 150W from the extra gears - Bob's your uncle. 

 

You may now say that my FTP is then naturally too low for me and I am not pushing hard enough in the fitness tests and therefore I can get higher readings when I choose to or feel strong. 

 

To that I don't have an answer as my max effort is unique to me and by looking at my progress over the last 7-8 years I think that I am working very hard with every video  .

 

 

I have been on TR for over 3 years and only used the Ramp test in ERG mode - Some time back i tested your analogy over a 7 day period - High gear / Low gear / high cadence / low cadence - every test i did ended with the same result within 1 or 2 watts of each other. 

Any change in, as you put it mech resistance, is compensated by the trainer resetting the brake. So if you change gears the trainer will auto adjust to compensate, if you speed up or slow down your cadence the trainer auto adjusts in the same way.

My conclusion was - your ftp is your ftp no matter what gear or cadence you do it at.

 

To answer the OP question about power loss - Maybe do a test by using a HT on the same route and compare the difference - maybe the power loss is a perceived power loss due to the squish factor and not real power loss 

[madmarc]

I am going to type out a whole essay to try and explain my point some more. I am not attacking or dissing anyone I am just trying to explain my experience and give some guidance.

 

So let me first give some stats - I have a 26er HT on a Taxc Flow smart trainer. I have been using Sufferfest since 2013 and have completed their 4DP multiple times on said trainer (or all three trainers - I've had a Satori and another Flow which they replaced). On the Satori (which is a semi-smart trainer - it gives the readings on Power, Speed and Cadence but the resistance is manual). On this set-up I actually had it as a single speed - I think I started with a 32T / 14 or something like that. I then found that I maxed the trainer quite easily (now this was perceived max - I would bounce like a mad man on the trainer at 130rpm). 

I then added gears to the bike, I think I went with a 1x9 to add more resistance. With this I also topped out and I then got me the Flow. 

 

Now since I got the Flow I've changed the gears up some more - I went from a 32T to a 34T with 9 at the back and I am still about 200W lower than my max power output I had on the Satori. I have since changed the 34T oval to a 48T and even though I still cant match the original watts I saw on the Satori (which I believe to have given incorrect readings) - I most definitely pedal way way harder and if I put my trainer on L9 (in level mode) and I place my bike in the heaviest gear my cadence drops to in the 60s sometimes even below 55 and I have to really work to get above 65. I can't maintain this for a very long period of time as my legs basically seize up  .

 

The trainer reaches a point where your levels basically start to fall out of range. Lets take my gear ratio and some fictitious values as an example to state my case:

 

I have a 1x9 with a 48T in the front and my FTP according to the 4DP or ramp or Half Monty or whatever test is 250W (this is just an example for the sake of explaining). Now I do a video and the trainer uses my 250W as a guide to adjust the amount of resistance it offers.

 

Will I be able to produce 250W on my gear ratio without any resistance from the trainer? Yip, I would be able to yes. 

Will I be able to produce more than 250W with my gear ratio? Yip, I would be able to yes.

 

So if I do the fitness test in a lighter gear than my 11/48 lets say I do it in a 17/48 and I get an FTP of 250W and I now use the remaining gears (from 17 down to 11) will I not eventually reach a point where I fall out of the range the trainer deems acceptable (lets say between 240-250W)? 

 

The answer is most definitely yes. I have done it and still do it many times. If you do an open video or a "free ride" and the video tells you to maintain 190W you reach a point where if you keep adding resistance (mechanically - gears) the trainer decreases the resistance to keep you within the range up to a point where it "flat lines" and does not decrease any more and then you have the 190W resistance from your trainer along with the 150W from the extra gears - Bob's your uncle. 

 

You may now say that my FTP is then naturally too low for me and I am not pushing hard enough in the fitness tests and therefore I can get higher readings when I choose to or feel strong. 

 

To that I don't have an answer as my max effort is unique to me and by looking at my progress over the last 7-8 years I think that I am working very hard with every video  .

 

Have you ever played with the resistance settings in the app - Not sure if /sufferfest has this function - But in TR on /resistance mode i can set the trainer difficulty I think in SWift there is a similar option.

 

So when turning the cranks is too easy and you run out of gears you increase the difficulty which slows your spin out or forces you to change up to an easier gear - almost like a virtual gear ratio changer

[Muttley]

Have you ever played with the resistance settings in the app - Not sure if /sufferfest has this function - But in TR on /resistance mode i can set the trainer difficulty I think in SWift there is a similar option.

 

So when turning the cranks is too easy and you run out of gears you increase the difficulty which slows your spin out or forces you to change up to an easier gear - almost like a virtual gear ratio changer

For Zwift:

https://zwiftinsider.com/trainer-difficulty-granny-gear/?fbclid=IwAR3KnW3jZlnRQMKmg3O9rCIHVea6IXJ7i697kl6s9web8GMHphvbfVxaq3E