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Alberton _ JHB South Riders


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They going to need to split the A bunch.

 

Still dont understand why the top 20 - 50 A bunch riders don't license' date=' surely it can't be because of the money.

 

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Because they work and have jobs. If the licence they get put into Elite and won't keep up. They don't have the same training time.

 

 I disagree dude. I know several guys who have full time jobs where they are on their feet all day' date=' as well as guys at Varsity who train very little in comparison to other Elites and they manage to stay in the bunch.

 

Yes, training plays a very important part (read, VERY) but its possible.

A category exists for those guys who are competitive, but not looking at cycling as a full time job. Its a sport and they want to enjoy the competitve nature of the sport without the intensity/devotion needed for Elites.

 

As for the flatter races, you (Andy) have to understand you still have the ability and chance to win these events. Racing smart and getting into a winning move does not favour a climber any less than a sprinter.

as for non climbers they have no chance of winning or even finishing hilly events with the leaders. And, if I came on here and complained that the event was too hard and I could not win because of the hills...you guys are going to laugh and tell me to train more.
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Maybe Andy must train less and race with me in the J-ish groups! smiley36.gif There's no traffic there dude smiley36.gif
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No ha ha! Kid heard you did a good time this morning! Well done dude! Racked up a nice 250kms this weekend! smiley4.gif And today is my last day at work! When's the next race smiley4.gif

 

Somebody lied to you dude.

I had a tough day in the saddle today, last week was much better.

Posted

Last chirp for today...

If racing was as clear cut as races favouring one type of rider than the other, where would the fun be in that?

Andy, are you aggressive when you race? Do you try getting into moves?

I'm a sprinter, but I'll take any opportunity that presents itself to get up the road. Remember, never take a sprinter to the line. And never let a hard man(climber) go, coz chances are you'll never see him again.
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No ha ha! Kid heard you did a good time this morning! Well done dude! Racked up a nice 250kms this weekend! smiley4.gif And today is my last day at work! When's the next race smiley4.gif

 

Somebody lied to you dude.

I had a tough day in the saddle today' date=' last week was much better.

 

 

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What was your time dude?
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No ha ha! Kid heard you did a good time this morning! Well done dude! Racked up a nice 250kms this weekend! smiley4.gif And today is my last day at work! When's the next race smiley4.gif

 

Somebody lied to you dude.

I had a tough day in the saddle today' date=' last week was much better.

 

 

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What was your time dude?

 

Much slower than everybody elses smiley19.gifsmiley19.gifsmiley19.gifsmiley19.gifsmiley19.gif

Guest Agteros
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No ha ha! Kid heard you did a good time this morning! Well done dude! Racked up a nice 250kms this weekend! smiley4.gif And today is my last day at work! When's the next race smiley4.gif

 

Somebody lied to you dude.

I had a tough day in the saddle today' date=' last week was much better.

 

 

[/quote']

 

What was your time dude?

 

Much slower than everybody elses smiley19.gifsmiley19.gifsmiley19.gifsmiley19.gifsmiley19.gif

How can you say that? I'm the only one who knows what my time is...
Posted

GO, maybe you are not understanding what I am complaining about or the issue has got a bit sidetracked. What I am complaining about is the organisers/marshals wanting to fit an entire group is a space that is too small for the entire group and then moaning about it. I acknowledge that there are some riders who blatantly disregard the marshals. As far as I have experienced this year when cars approach the group does move over but it takes 20-30 seconds or so for this to occur. The bigger the group the longer it will take. Expecting everyone to keep left at all times is wishful thinking and a bit impossible and that fact needs to be lived with. It is not always ideal but it can't be helped. And this year A group seems to be stronger than in previous years. More and more riders seem to be able to stay with the front part and less are getting dropped. Maybe what we need is more circuit racing with circuits of about 15 to 20km long. It will be easier to marshal and control.

GO, how are the sportives in Europe handled from a road closure/marshalling point of view? As far as I understand you have ridden a few.

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GO' date=' maybe you are not understanding what I am complaining about or the issue has got a bit sidetracked. What I am complaining about is the organisers/marshals wanting to fit an entire group is a space that is too small for the entire group and then moaning about it. I acknowledge that there are some riders who blatantly disregard the marshals. As far as I have experienced this year when cars approach the group does move over but it takes 20-30 seconds or so for this to occur. The bigger the group the longer it will take. Expecting everyone to keep left at all times is wishful thinking and a bit impossible and that fact needs to be lived with. It is not always ideal but it can't be helped. And this year A group seems to be stronger than in previous years. More and more riders seem to be able to stay with the front part and less are getting dropped. Maybe what we need is more circuit racing with circuits of about 15 to 20km long. It will be easier to marshal and control.

GO, how are the sportives in Europe handled from a road closure/marshalling point of view? As far as I understand you have ridden a few.

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Your talking about two very different places here. In Europe the people actually have an understanding of the road rules, both in their cars and on their bikes.

Riders adhere to the rules set out by the organisers, or face a DQ, no doubt about it.

GranFondo races, sportives and other organised events there also vary in scale...but the roads are closed entirely for the benefit of the cyclists. Marshalls are not only trained properly, but also respected by the riders.

Switzerland encourage cycling as a means of transport, so people are respectful of riders...and more importantly they all understand the might of the law. Belgium view cyclists as Gods, as do France and Italy...so the same applies there, and the riders are once again mindfull of the laws. South African motorists despise cyclists, as well as police...so when you have some guy waving a flag at a motorist chances are he's not gonna listen in any event. Can you blame them? Coz we cyclists bring such bad press to ourselves by not obeying the rules.

 

Here in SA several races now have full road closure which is great, and it eliminates the white line aspect of what you are saying.

But from an organisers point of view, its a nightmare.

I'll give you an example, when you sign the form to race you sign a disclaimer. If you crash, its not the organisers fault. And you agree to abide to the rules set out by the CSA, relevent province and organising club.

Now, if a rider crosses the white line, and has an altercation with an oncoming vehicle of any sorts the owner of that vehicle has the right to take the organisers to task legally. The organisers have to provide marshalls, agree to the rules of safety and enforce them. So, if someone is over the line and something happens, although the cyclist has no claim against the organisers, the 'public' person has the right against the organisers for breaking the rules and causing damage. So when we compete, we compete representing the cycling body/organiser/club/province who have put the event on.

Making sense?

 

Now I know it sucks having to obey it, but its genuinely there for our safety. We discussed this briefly on another thread during the week.

I also believe every cyclist should take a turn in marshalling an event. Its thankless work, full of abuse from other road users as well as cyclists.

 

I have been unfortunate enough to witness 4 occassions where riders have hit a car head on in a race. Its not pretty, and was totally avoidable. The problem was with the riders trying desperately to move up in the heat of the race, not listening to marshalls and coming off second best. Personally, I'd stay left of the line rather than die.

 

Take an event like the FastOne, it used Ekerhuleni, MidVaal, Lesedi and Vereeniging municipalities jurisdiction. each of those municipalities have allowance in their constitutions for sporting events on their roads. But they also have to ensure the safety of the riders, marshalls and other raod users affected by the race. Hence the rules, and why its best to just adhere until such times as they are able to get full road closure. (which is not cheap by the way)

 
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And this year A group seems to be stronger than in previous years. More and more riders seem to be able to stay with the front part and less are getting dropped.

 

Andy dude' date=' the A group isn't getting stronger you are getting weaker/slower.

Even I beat you today [img']https://assets.bikehub.co.za/legacy_images/smilies/smiley4.gif[/img]smiley4.gif

Actually the whole ASGR team beat you today.

Ever since you that American plastic bike you've become slower.

 

I think you need to start training!!!

Guest Agteros
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Somebody lied to you dude.

I had a tough day in the saddle today' date=' last week was much better.

[/quote']

 

Indigo, you were 13th in your batch and you kom plane like this. You were just over 4 minutes behind the batch lead. Well done man!smiley32.gif Just keep on doing the races, and the seeding ladder will eventually catch up.
Posted

Thanks for that info GO.

I think that the white line rule, while I understand and appreciate the importance of it, is similar to setting a speed limit of 60kph on certain roads. Good intention but not always practical. Just as with many laws/rules that contain huge discrepancies between what is written and what can be practically applied. And I suppose that it is a problem that can also be mostly in the area where these early season races are held as the roads are relatively flat which keeps the bunches big, the road surfaces ranges from ok to downright shocking, the roads are narrow and since there are few alternative routes (and the alternative routes are extremely long ways around) there will problems with cyclists and motorists.

I have just done some rough calculations: Take a bunch of 200 riders. Without restricting them to the one lane they can ride say 4 abreast. Take a average distance of say 2m length of bike with a slight gap. The bunch length would be about 100m. Restrict them to the left lane at all times and you then have to have them riding 3 abreast. Take the same rough length of 2m per bike and slight gap. The bunch then becomes about 130m long. Surely from a marshalling point of view it would be easier to control a bunch that is shorter overall than longer. Of course when cars do approach the bunch can squeeze into the one lane. You will see in the other races this season there won't be much of a problem. Was there a problem in BnD? No, because the bunches split up. There can't be any hard and fast rules, decisions have to be taken on the ground at the time having consideration to all factors.

 
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And this year A group seems to be stronger than in previous years. More and more riders seem to be able to stay with the front part and less are getting dropped.

 

Andy dude' date=' the A group isn't getting stronger you are getting weaker/slower.

Even I beat you today [img']https://assets.bikehub.co.za/legacy_images/smilies/smiley4.gif[/img]smiley4.gif

Actually the whole ASGR team beat you today.

Ever since you that American plastic bike you've become slower.

 

I think you need to start training!!!

 

 

The A group has become stronger. The average speeds seem to be creeping up slightly. And I have become stronger. This is te first year that I hve felt stronger and staying with the front bunch the whole distance.
Guest Agteros
Posted

Eish and so we blasted right through the 500 page barrier before anybody could say anything!

 

Andy, you were looking for me on Friday, you have my contact details now?
Posted

Andy, I think I may be wrong in saying this but the marshalls and the commisaires pretty much have to think on their feet during a race. If they can see that the guys crossing the line is not putting them (or anyone else) in immediate danger, then they sort of let it go with just the usual 'hooting' as a warning. If they can see its more serious, then they have to take drastic measures to enforce it.

 

Thats what we need, people willing to oversee an event, and act on behalf of a rider.

 

Your calculations are right, a bunch that size is a marshalls nightmare. Lane size, positioning and speed all add to the equation. Yes, the faster flatter races see these bigger bunches, whereas the hillier ones split the field and make it easier to patrol. I agree.

 

You mentioned alternative routes, and that is something in SA that we dont really have in relation to Europe where if there is an event there will be an alternative route for the road users so as to not inconvenience anyone.

 

I think you'll find in an event like today the Elites will have the benefit of a rolling road closure wherever possible. That is in all fairness where the race interest is, so they keep it clear for them.

 

When we discuss matters like this it reminds me of a former chairman of the STVL/CGC province. In the mid nineties we had a very talented rider by the name of Wayne Pomario, he was an Elite South African TT champion on the road. But more importantly he was an attorney and legal lecturer for WITS. He got involved at first with time keeping, then became a UCI accredited Commisaire. He also became the chairman of the province at the same time, and his approach was to ensure the riders recieved the best possible chances when racing. He could never be told that an event could not be done, he simply found a way to make it work.

Now I understand your a learned guy as well Andy, and guys like you are valuble to cycling. You understand the letter of the law, and with that knowledge why not get involved and try change some of the ways in which races are conducted? I'm serious, the sport needs people with a vision to change it?

 

If your wondering what happened to Mr Pomario, well he emmigrated to Canada...and became the head of the Canadian cycling officials association...as well as being one of the worlds leading commisaires, as well as chief commisaire for the Beijing Olympics. All from a humble start in this tiny province! watch out for him in Le Tour really soon.
Posted

Soo all you hubbers.

I thought I will report back on my race yesterday.

 

Started in front for the first 5km and pretty much stayed in front most of the way working really well with about 5 other dudes.

 

Caught one of the C/L bunches and they decided to join our group and one hellofa creash as a result.

 

Glad I was sitting right in front at this stage.

 

I LOVED the wind and worked really hard yesterday.

 

I finished 7th and stayed with the break to the last corner where some "group" riders decided to make an apearance for the first time in the race WTF!!!!!

 

Kieran you quite right when you mention that the clever okes win races the rest work really hard to get them a good time.

 

Lesson learned.

 

Now I go and check my results this morning only to find that Championchip messed up big time as they have me as a DNF.

 

What now?

 

Quite heart breaking after I did a lot of work to be then told I did not complete the race????

 

I have words that come up but will for now not utter them.

 

Will give the okes a call and see what happens.

 

Must be honest after we finished a couple of okes came over to thank me for the ride so I have witnesses that I indeed finished.

 

Will let you all know what happens.

 

Have an awesome week dudes and dudins.

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