KDEE Posted December 7, 2008 Share Good post Hog, not the one above, but the previous Im selfish, I cant/wont/am too scared to ride NS stuff, so the park suits me as it is now. But then I cant ride there everyday, so will take me along time to get bored. I wish they would concentrate more on small kids. While the trails on not technical at MTN, kids under 10 and those on BMX bikes will battle to ride the trails. The coffee shop will draw parents, but only if they can watch the kids from the coffee shop. Myself, my wife and my 9 yr old can ride most of the trails together. My 6 yr old can ride some of the trails for a little while. My wife then wants to sit and have a coffee while the 6 yr old messes about close to her. I can then ride in peace, with or without the 9 yr old... And thats the thing, the park needs the business/money from the parents to develop the park. The Bmx track is worrying me big time. Hope like hell they build a smaller one for the smaller kids and non racing social kids. And hope like hell that when its open, I am going to be able to take my car down to the track. Most Bmx parents carry plenty tools/spares/tyres/chainrings for practice/set up. Dont fancy lugging toolbox/chairs/spares/umbrella/gazebo all the way down to the track! The parks got huge potential and I really, really hope it grows and succeeds. ( All suggestions/concerns long since passed on to Geoff ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted December 7, 2008 Share HR' date=' where did you ride today? I ended up at Groenkloof this morning. Managed to get very close to some Zebra, as well as a Giraffe and her young one. I decided to get moving after mommy Giraffe gave me the death stare! I know that look all too well!?I wanted to go to the park this afternoon, but after a late lunch at Schwabinger with the in-laws I'm still struggling to move. [/quote'] didn't get out of bed till 10-ish. will most probably take the kids to the park when they get back from the coast next week. maybe on the public holiday. join us there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aicorner Posted December 7, 2008 Share Giba IS world class. First tine we rode there we laughed at the short crppy track & predicted it would go bankrupt in a month. Don't know how long it took Whistler etc by I expect a few seasons Maybe these things take a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustthesickness Posted December 8, 2008 Share and what is wrong with hardtails on the BD trails???????????? IMBA's definition of a Dbl Black diamond trail is a lot more severe than ours are. http://www.imba.com/resources/trail_building/itn_17_4_trail_difficulty.html Logwood has that one trail (dark side?) that has 2 nice tricky sections off the roof of that farmhouse, and a big box descent in the forest, but no drop offs and nothing you can't do on a hardtail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted December 8, 2008 Share Read Vaulter's post, but not all of the replies. I haven't been there, but respect the fact that this is his opinion. I would probably be dissapointed myself. Now, I'm not bitching or moaning, BUT: Tokai has seen quite a lot of work done after winter rain and storms reaked havoc. Great stuff and thanks to everyone committed to the cause. What dissapoints me and what I don't understand is that some of the more technical sections got filled up with sand or a new section was build around it and the old section closed off. Why? Sure you can build a new not so technical section around it if it's realy necessary, but keep the tech section open for the rest of us. Not ALL of us ride XC. Some of us like to get the blood flowing! Same in Eden. Some monster trees fell and instead of building a SMALL not technical at all bridge over it, the tree and everything in a 5m radias was cut up or down and removed. Why? I'm not talking about a 10cm ramp with a 5m drop into hell and beyond...just a bridge wide enough for most people to cross. Why remove/fill-up/change the tech sections to doze off sections? Again, I love the trails and am thankfull for people doing maintenance, but I think some more thought can be put into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog_ Posted December 8, 2008 Share HR' date=' where did you ride today? I ended up at Groenkloof this morning. Managed to get very close to some Zebra, as well as a Giraffe and her young one. I decided to get moving after mommy Giraffe gave me the death stare! I know that look all too well! I wanted to go to the park this afternoon, but after a late lunch at Schwabinger with the in-laws I'm still struggling to move. [/quote'] didn't get out of bed till 10-ish. will most probably take the kids to the park when they get back from the coast next week. maybe on the public holiday. join us there? Lemme know when, I'll see if I can make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted December 8, 2008 Share My 2c... Most of Jhb is just not hilly enough to have fast, technical, BD style runs. Sad but true. Most bike parks are aimed at beginner/intermediate riders probably with children. They are the majority and that's what the business side of bike parks are aimed at. Free rider/north shore/downhillers are definitely the minority - the style of our parks reflect this. About the only place a Whistler style bike park would work in SA is CT/PMB/Drakensburg area. Posting negative comments on the park in public forums is only going to reduce the numbers (and the cash flow) and the park's viability. Reasonable and constructive criticism should be sent to the people that can do something about it rather than publically. I will probably never ride there (too far for me) but the more bums in seats we have the better for our sport. Big up to Geoff and everyone else who made the park a reality. 10 years ago we had the quarry (long may we mourn the day that closed down) - now we have several bike parks all within 20km of each other - does life get better? Ahhh the quarry - what memories..what potential...can you imaginbe if the quarry had became a bike park instead of a yuppie squatter camp? Mmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Daemon_ Posted December 8, 2008 Share My 2c... Free rider/north shore/downhillers are definitely the minority - the style of our parks reflect this. About the only place a Whistler style bike park would work in SA is CT/PMB/Drakensburg area. Erm..no...did you ever ride the spruit when the North Shore stuff was there? You can have loads of NS, Freeriding and DJ on FLAT ground....if a handfull of guys can build WAAAAAAAYYYYYY better north shore on their own just cause they want to ride it, why can a commerical park not built it? The wood in the park is a joke, how many planks are broken already? the big bridge...like the first post in this thread said, what's the point??The black routes..especially space junk, is it rated black cause of the stupid switch back climbs? i would have thought on a black route that should be a downhill section and not climbs...seeing as people that would ride "black" routes would be on DJ hardtails, freeride bikes, basically bikes that don't climb well....but then I suppose there's nothing in the park that warrents anything more beefier than a XC bike.Apart from all the the loops are fun and I will probarly ride the park once a month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted December 8, 2008 Share Erm..no...did you ever ride the spruit when the North Shore stuff was there? You can have loads of NS' date=' Freeriding and DJ on FLAT ground....if a handfull of guys can build WAAAAAAAYYYYYY better north shore on their own just cause they want to ride it, why can a commerical park not built it? [/quote'] Fair point - I guess I've always just seen vids of north shore stuff banking through forrests and over large obstacles... It's not that the commercial park CAN'T build it - they WON'T build it because they would prefer to attract the biggest mtb demographic which is beginner/intermediate with children. I'm guessing it's also much cheaper and requires less skill to develop paths than it does to build north shore/extreme stuff... Maybe when the park is turning a decent profit they might turn their attention from simple easy/flowing trails to the more complex north shore/extreme stuff. We can only hope...Eldron2008-12-08 06:04:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustthesickness Posted December 8, 2008 Share Eldron, where do you get these facts from? Where did it say that "beginner/intermediate with children" is the target market? Plenty of riders around that don't fit that bill. As far as I remember, they were building a bike park, not a kindergarten or day care. They will lose many riders if they don't build some proper challenging trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted December 8, 2008 Share Eldron' date=' where do you get these facts from? Where did it say that "beginner/intermediate with children" is the target market? Plenty of riders around that don't fit that bill.As far as I remember, they were building a bike park, not a kindergarten or day care. They will lose many riders if they don't build some proper challenging trails.[/quote'] Compare the numbers of entrants at a XC race versus a Downhill race...if the start list at a downhill race tops 100 then it's huge. Has there ever been a kiddies race at a downhill event? Ever seen mommy and daddy pushing junior down a mountain? Almost every traditional road race now has a mountain bike version (94.7/Amashoveshova/Argus etc) that is firmly aimed at social riding. The 94.7 mtb race was mostly fun riders. At the 24 hour race over the weekend I would guess the social teams outnumbered the race teams 5 to 1... Compare downhill/free ride bike sales to "normal" mtb sales - I'm guessing 100 to 1? 300 to 1? I worked at Linden Cycles for about 5 years - if we sold 10 downhill/free ride bikes in that time it was a lot.... Availability of normal versus downhill bikes? Every manufacturer has at least 30 cross country bike to a handful of freeride bikes. Hell most manufacturers don't even sell freeride bikes. I have no facts regarding who the bike park was aimed at but if it were me I'd certainly aim at the social ranks - many more of them than race snakes and free riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustthesickness Posted December 8, 2008 Share yeah, but I didnt say 'downhill park'. These parks [logwood & this] have supposed rated routes that are nowhere near up to scratch. Glad you worked at Linden cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog_ Posted December 8, 2008 Share Eldron' date=' where do you get these facts from? Where did it say that "beginner/intermediate with children" is the target market? Plenty of riders around that don't fit that bill. As far as I remember, they were building a bike park, not a kindergarten or day care. They will lose many riders if they don't build some proper challenging trails. [/quote'] I have to disagree here. Your average MTBr can't ride over a 1m wide bridge without getting off and pushing. The target market IS people with intermediate skill. The target market is the people that have to drive from JHB to Northern Farms to go riding. The target market is the guys riding the Spruit. The target market is the guys that never had a MTB, but now that they have a place to ride, they can justify buying a bike. The guys that do ride NS/FR will go where they always go (where the hell do they go anyway?). Life won't change for them. Just because a park was built that doesn't cater for the hardcore crowd, doesn't mean everyone should bitch about it. I don't bitch when the nightclub they build in my area is a rave club. I know that metal/rock clubs don't attract that many people, and as such they will always stay in the middle of nowhere. If I had to build a bike park to make money out of, I wouldn't build NS stuff either. I would do my best to cater for the majority, since they pay the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted December 8, 2008 Share yeah' date=' but I didnt say 'downhill park'. These parks [logwood & this'] have supposed rated routes that are nowhere near up to scratch.Glad you worked at Linden cycles. They might no be up to your scratch or the latest fox vide scratc but they are certainly up to 90% of mtb rider's scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Daemon_ Posted December 8, 2008 Share Eldron' date=' where do you get these facts from? Where did it say that "beginner/intermediate with children" is the target market? Plenty of riders around that don't fit that bill. As far as I remember, they were building a bike park, not a kindergarten or day care. They will lose many riders if they don't build some proper challenging trails. [/quote'] I have to disagree here. Your average MTBr can't ride over a 1m wide bridge without getting off and pushing. The target market IS people with intermediate skill. The target market is the people that have to drive from JHB to Northern Farms to go riding. The target market is the guys riding the Spruit. The target market is the guys that never had a MTB, but now that they have a place to ride, they can justify buying a bike. The guys that do ride NS/FR will go where they always go (where the hell do they go anyway?). Life won't change for them. Just because a park was built that doesn't cater for the hardcore crowd, doesn't mean everyone should bitch about it. I don't bitch when the nightclub they build in my area is a rave club. I know that metal/rock clubs don't attract that many people, and as such they will always stay in the middle of nowhere. If I had to build a bike park to make money out of, I wouldn't build NS stuff either. I would do my best to cater for the majority, since they pay the bills. Sure the target market can be for you family mtber, but then cater for the rest of the guys and build proper black routes, how many routes are there in the park at the moment? Let's say argument purpose, there's 10, then make 3 black routes with say the first one normal black, 2nd one double diamond and third, triple diamond, then they still cater for their "intended"market, but won't loose out on riders wanting to ride a bit more. oh and the freeride crowd goes to The Backyard park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustthesickness Posted December 8, 2008 Share yeah' date=' but I didnt say 'downhill park'. These parks [logwood & this'] have supposed rated routes that are nowhere near up to scratch.Glad you worked at Linden cycles. They might no be up to your scratch or the latest fox vide scratc but they are certainly up to 90% of mtb rider's scratch. ...and you speak for the 90% then do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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