CSA License

[porky]

Not really the same thing at all Porky.  In your example its like buying a TV and not getting the warranty card with it.  Not really a big deal.  Surely your only concern is whether you can race or not? What difference does it make if you have to carry a stupid piece of plastic or a stupid piece of paper to prove you are a licensed rider?

Perhaps you guys should have a look at CSA's (sadly very woeful) budgets which are presented every month on the website.  I assume they are reasonably accurate and they are very informative.  The system seemed pretty easy to use to me' date=' but I imagine people trying to run club admin from home using a dial-up connection may have problems.  Can't really expect CSA to deal with that - up the club fees and get a decent computer and connection.

Porky - you want to use the club issue and compare running with cycling?  The comparison is also not valid for numerous other reasons.  How long do you wait for results for a running race?  Anyone know when the Hillcrest (NIMAS) marathon results will be out? Race was on 15 Feb.  Running's admin and back-up is slow and manual.  The reason you get your number early is because they are sponsored, preprinted and pre-ordered in bulk quantity by clubs.  Great to get license numbers to runners but useless in developing a decent results, timing and seeding database. 

BTW - this doesn't excuse the late delivery of licenses by CSA.  It should, could and no doubt will become an efficient process.  The problem is expectations are way in excess of the funding and relative stage of development.  These things take time.
[/quote']

 

I disagree Linnega, I hear your point but you are equating eveything (issues) to funding, (and it may well be the reason) - BUT - thats not my problem!!.

 

When you set up a system and DEMAND money up front, you BEST make sure your system is good enough and that you can produce a timeous and effecient service FIRST!!.

 

Otherwise, get your "ducks in a row", then say, fine boys its all systems go and lets move on!.

 

But thats not the case here, to me it appears they took no advice, wheelbarrowed ahead and HOPED like hell when things went pear shaped they could cope - well they couldnt and thats never been more clear.

 

You just cannot play "Work in Progress" with your paying clients and expect them to just sit around and say, "Oh well theres no money so lets just accept this c**p" - You asked for XYZ from me, I paid, now deliver the service - Why should we expect anything less.?

 

CSA / MYRACE want the benefits of been a commercial operation, (ie)Clients who will buy their product, but offer the service levels of a third world government  - No Sir, it dosnt work like that.

 

I cant comment on the particular race you mention, but I can on numerous others, and the results are usually up within a reasonable time, - actually look at a few posts here and you will see there are quite a few cycle races which also have issues with results, cycling certainly cant shout from the tree tops here either.

 

Sure there are issues in running Linnega, I wont deny it, but in general, I think they are d**n side better organised than cycling on most fronts.

 

[Napalm]

 

I hope CSA/Argus orgs will have enough skilled resources to handle the amount of cyclists pitching up at reg that have applied for but dont have their lic.

 

From what I understand the organiser receive a list beforehand of licensed riders, so despite not having printed cards to present to them, that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Ox_Wagon]

Linnega, I have to disagree. The timing bit isn?t relevant.  The timing system and seeding system in cycling has been working for years before CSA wanted a slice of the $ pie.  They still have nothing to do with it.  In short we not getting anything for the money we pay.  If they start lobbing the Government over cycling safety I will change my opinion over what I consider ?Cycling TAX?. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

There is nothing stopping CSA of adopting ASA method and getting a sponsor for numbers/disk(similar to the ones used by the pros that fastens on to the bike).  They can preprint them, pre distribute them and it can be as simples as walking in to a shop/club and buying a disk and walking out with it.  The bikes can then be check for their disks at races in the same way that ASA check for the cloth licenses.  You could even have two different colored disks/plates, with the same license number, one for road and one for your MTB.

Coming back to running. Accurate timing isn?t important as seeding isn?t an issue.  On the bigger races, like <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Two Oceans and Comrades, Championchip is used.  I stand corrected but I was under the impression that Comrades was the first user of Championchip in the country.   They even make it possible to track an runner through about 4 mats on the route during the race.  The smaller races does not use chips to keep the costs down.  Unlike cycling you can still do a running race for R40.

[Andre Engelbrec]

Napalm what is your position at CSA as it seems you have a lot of inside info. Why are you so quick to defend CSA?

Does the following look familiar.  ""If you can't get people to pay for what they love, we're all out of business."

This seems to be so true. They should not receive what they have paid for.

[Mark]

Try contacting Taryn @ 082 779 4798 or My Race @ 021 557 1212

 

Good luck...I was supposed to registered as a Sub Vet and got registered as an Elite Rider...BETTER TRAIN MORE I GUESS

 

I have contacted Taryn on numerous occasions and she has always responded and sorted my problem out within the same day.

[scotty]

I hope CSA/Argus orgs will have enough skilled resources to handle the amount of cyclists pitching up at reg that have applied for but dont have their lic.

From what I understand the organiser receive a list beforehand of licensed riders' date=' so despite not having printed cards to present to them, that shouldn't be a problem.
[/quote']

 

That would be fine but CSA is sitting with a pile of applications forms received that have not been recorded anywhere, so the list is incomplete. When i phoned yesterday it took about 10 min for the lady to sift through them to eventually find my mine.

[porky]

Hmmmmm, Scotty, just watch your license money WORK FOR YOU.!

[linnega]

Linnega' date=' I have to disagree. The timing bit isn?t relevant.  The timing system and seeding system in cycling has been working for years before CSA wanted a slice of the $ pie.  They still have nothing to do with it.  In short we not getting anything for the money we pay.  If they start lobbing the Government over cycling safety I will change my opinion over what I consider ?Cycling TAX?. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

There is nothing stopping CSA of adopting ASA method and getting a sponsor for numbers/disk(similar to the ones used by the pros that fastens on to the bike).  They can preprint them, pre distribute them and it can be as simples as walking in to a shop/club and buying a disk and walking out with it.  The bikes can then be check for their disks at races in the same way that ASA check for the cloth licenses.  You could even have two different colored disks/plates, with the same license number, one for road and one for your MTB.

Coming back to running. Accurate timing isn?t important as seeding isn?t an issue.  On the bigger races, like <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Two Oceans and Comrades, Championchip is used.  I stand corrected but I was under the impression that Comrades was the first user of Championchip in the country.   They even make it possible to track an runner through about 4 mats on the route during the race.  The smaller races does not use chips to keep the costs down.  Unlike cycling you can still do a running race for R40.

[/quote']

The biggest difference between running and cycling is that the administration in running effectively delegates all responsibility to others.  In many ways they are fortunate that running shops and clubs remain committed to growing the sport, and have a number of volunteers getting involved at all levels.  Their other major good fortune is the accessibility of the sport to the poor.  This means that corporates clamber over each other for a piece of the masses.  Running administrators are also a very closed shop - getting any information, scandals, explanations is generally met with stoney silence.  CSA is one of the most open national sports federations around in comparison.

 

I understand what you are saying about a simple licensing system but that doesn't really look at the bigger picture.  Getting people onto a database that is sustainable and scaleable is the aim.  CSA perhaps tried to achieve too much with the licensing scheme (collect accurate contact information; register all racing cyclists; develop a proper and consistent seeding system; maintain a databse of results; promote the club concept that had disappeared) but good for them for trying.  Perhaps once the primary goals have been achieved CSA can introduce a sponsored permanent number board.  It would certainly make life simpler for those provinces that don't already have the process in place.

 

Just a correction, while Championchip do provide the timing and their chips and mats record the progress of runners, Mr Price's IT division provide the hardware and software that provide spectators with up to date information on progress of each runner through the various points via the internet or SMS.

[Napalm]

 

 

I understand what you are saying about a simple licensing system but that doesn't really look at the bigger picture.  Getting people onto a database that is sustainable and scaleable is the aim.  CSA perhaps tried to achieve too much with the licensing scheme (collect accurate contact information; register all racing cyclists; develop a proper and consistent seeding system; maintain a databse of results; promote the club concept that had disappeared) but good for them for trying.  Perhaps once the primary goals have been achieved CSA can introduce a sponsored permanent number board.  It would certainly make life simpler for those provinces that don't already have the process in place.

 

I agree completely. A lot of things needs to be put on the back burner and the basics should be done right.  I know of people who's details changed 6 years ago, and it's still being wrong in the paper based application. 

 

You can't blame CSA for that - people write illegible, and honestly I cannot imagine that it must be the most stimulating job to do either. That's why mistake crept in, and stayed in.  The only way to achieve it is for the cyclist is responsible for their own data.

 

Integrating seeding, results etc etc is a nice to have, but not realistic at this point IMHO. 

 

[Toestrap]

This is what happens when they suspend the entire CSA office and are yet to serve them with charges... 3 weeks suspension interesting labour practice?

[Napalm]

 

This is what happens when they suspend the entire CSA office and are yet to serve them with charges... 3 weeks suspension interesting labour practice?

 

So should they be kept in active service and continue doing what they have been doing wrong? (whatever it is). Is this government?

 

[Toestrap]

No, I agree but my sources tell me they... Mr Lemmer and co have nothing on her other than her asking some difficult questions re the online system etc. I suppose as all things the chickens will come home to roost and knowing her they better have their ducks in a row or Mr Lemmer will pay the price!