Q-Rings

[Windbreaker]

Fatty, do you still use them? If not why not?

[BikeMax]

 

They work as advertised.

buy em

 

Mmm now I'm not so sure ....

 

Surely not questioning Go Lefty's credibility

 

[Windbreaker]

I remember someone claiming 20% improvement in "power" on this site. I see that a more believable improvement is quoted in this study

http://www.rotorcranks.com/pdf/q-ringstest.pdf

 

But it seems that to get the best results you need to analyse your pedal stroke with a utility called spinscan. Is this something that comes with a computrainer?

 

 

 

[fatcyclist]

 

Fatty' date=' do you still use them? If not why not?

[/quote']No, I still use them!

 

[BikeMax]

Not wanting to be the voice of skepticism but please be aware that there is little to show that a better pedal stroke does much for performance - this is a quote from one of the top ex physiologists in the UK (this aside - if it works for you then go for it..)

 

Originally Posted by ric_stern/RST

Not

only is 'circular' pedalling overrated, the evidence appears to be

against it -- in general, all the research that had examinded actual

pedal forces tends to show that less good cyclist are more 'circular',

while better cyclists simply stomp down harder.

 

 

As i said

in another thread i would not worry about how you pedal (for the vast

majority -- MTBers are an exception due to issues of steep and slippy

hills) -- all you want to do is aim to produce the greatest power over

the duration of your ride

 

 

 

ric

 

[MWdeJager]

Not wanting to be the voice of skepticism but please be aware that there is little to show that a better pedal stroke does much for performance - this is a quote from one of the top ex physiologists in the UK (this aside - if it works for you then go for it..)

Originally Posted by ric_stern/RST

Not only is 'circular' pedalling overrated' date=' the evidence appears to be against it -- in general, all the research that had examinded actual pedal forces tends to show that less good cyclist are more 'circular', while better cyclists simply stomp down harder.

As i said in another thread i would not worry about how you pedal (for the vast majority -- MTBers are an exception due to issues of steep and slippy hills) -- all you want to do is aim to produce the greatest power over the duration of your ride

ric

[/quote']

 

Very clever that BikeMax - so you're saying nothing cause you're quoting someone else.  In Afrikaans we call that a "draadsitter".

 

Anyway - according to ric_stern/RST then I'll be a poor cyclist today.

 

I also thought that I was just stomping down hard in stead of pedalling in proper circles until I tried one of the power meter equipped bikes in the gym.  I could not ride the forkin thing because I kept pulling my feet out of the toe straps.

MWdeJager2007-02-20 08:32:00

[BikeMax]

 

Not wanting to be the voice of skepticism but please be aware that there is little to show that a better pedal stroke does much for performance - this is a quote from one of the top ex physiologists in the UK (this aside - if it works for you then go for it..)

 

 

Originally Posted by ric_stern/RST

Not only is 'circular' pedalling overrated' date=' the evidence appears to be against it -- in general, all the research that had examinded actual pedal forces tends to show that less good cyclist are more 'circular', while better cyclists simply stomp down harder.

 

As i said in another thread i would not worry about how you pedal (for the vast majority -- MTBers are an exception due to issues of steep and slippy hills) -- all you want to do is aim to produce the greatest power over the duration of your ride

 

ric

[/quote']

 

Very clever that BikeMax - so you're saying nothing cause you're quoting someone else.  In Afrikaans we call that a "draadsitter".

 

Anyway - according to ric_stern/RST then I'll be a poor cyclist today.

 

I also thought that I was just stomping down hard in stead of pedalling in proper circles until I tried one of the power meter equipped bikes in the gym.  I could not ride the forkin thing because I kept pulling my feet out of the toe straps.

 

Cmon MW  - quoting a top ex physiologist is surely a reasonable approach given that he has more info on the topic than I do. On top of that I support what he says here and think his quote is relevant.

 

As for your gym bike experience - that has less to do with pedalling in circles and more to do with the high torque on gym bikes and the effectiveness of clipless pedals vs the crap toe straps in gyms..

 

[WorcesterWheelers]

Hey Bikemax.

 

You've got all my PT data, go have a look at the last few weeks files, and let me know if you can notice any difference in the stats over the last few weeks, since using the Q-rings.

 

Sorry guys.

 

Noticed quite a few questions, will answer them in the morning.

 

In the mean time, any body interested in placing a special hubbers order, pm or e-mail me: francois@maniccycles.co.za

 

They are avaialble in road, TT and mtb, Shimano and Campy and XTR compatable. Basic road retails for R1,500, mtb for R1,700, XTR and TT cranks are R1,950.

 

I'm willing to offer a 10% discount to all hubbers placing orders before end of Feb. (You need to at least ride them a few weeks prior to Argus or the Epic)

 

According to the local agent, Ivan, they offer a 30day money back guarantee, and as yet, not one set had been returned. The list of riders endorsing these q-rings is quite impressive.

 

Cheers.

WW

[BikeMax]

 

Hey Bikemax.

 

You've got all my PT data' date=' go have a look at the last few weeks files, and let me know if you can notice any difference in the stats over the last few weeks, since using the Q-rings.

 

Sorry guys.

 

Noticed quite a few questions, will answer them in the morning.

 

In the mean time, any body interested in placing a special hubbers order, pm or e-mail me: francois@maniccycles.co.za

 

They are avaialble in road, TT and mtb, Shimano and Campy and XTR compatable. Basic road retails for R1,500, mtb for R1,700, XTR and TT cranks are R1,950.

 

I'm willing to offer a 10% discount to all hubbers placing orders before end of Feb. (You need to at least ride them a few weeks prior to Argus or the Epic)

 

According to the local agent, Ivan, they offer a 30day money back guarantee, and as yet, not one set had been returned. The list of riders endorsing these q-rings is quite impressive.

 

Cheers.

WW

[/quote']

 

What date did you star using them exactly ?

 

The problem with this sort of analysis is that there is no control - in other words, you will have been getting fitter due to training & racing, and so it is hard to attribute any power improvements to the Q rings

 

[MWdeJager]

......

Cmon MW  - quoting a top ex physiologist is surely a reasonable approach given that he has more info on the topic than I do. On top of that I support what he says here and think his quote is relevant.

As for your gym bike experience - that has less to do with pedalling in circles and more to do with the high torque on gym bikes and the effectiveness of clipless pedals vs the crap toe straps in gyms..

 

Exactly my point Bikemax.  But you seem to disagree still. 

 

What is the point of clipless pedals it you are not using it, i.e. to pedal in circles.  Then you could just as well use flat pedals with crap toe straps if you are just going to be stomping on the pedals.

 

Why do you say - "High Torque" gym bikes?  I'm sure their magnetic resistance works in a way very similar to the LODE bikes used by sport scientists.  But I'm sure you'll corect me if I'm wrong.

[BikeMax]

 

......

Cmon MW  - quoting a top ex physiologist is surely a reasonable approach given that he has more info on the topic than I do. On top of that I support what he says here and think his quote is relevant.

 

As for your gym bike experience - that has less to do with pedalling in circles and more to do with the high torque on gym bikes and the effectiveness of clipless pedals vs the crap toe straps in gyms..

 

Exactly my point Bikemax.  But you seem to disagree still. 

 

What is the point of clipless pedals it you are not using it' date=' i.e. to pedal in circles.  Then you could just as well use flat pedals with crap toe straps if you are just going to be stomping on the pedals.

 

Why do you say - "High Torque" gym bikes?  I'm sure their magnetic resistance works in a way very similar to the LODE bikes used by sport scientists.  But I'm sure you'll corect me if I'm wrong.

[/quote']

 

Clipless pedals just serve to keep your feet stable on the pedal platform - they may help you to unweight the pedal on the upstroke. They "could" help you pull up if you wanted (but there is no benefit in so doing)

 

Gym bikes tend to be harder to achieve a low torque situation when you want low resistance - many unfit gym users struggle with getting the heavy flywheel spinning and this can create a situation where you are pulling up trying to get the thing moving and your foot comes out of the strap. (not that you are an unfit gym user but hopefully you get what I am driving at) Lode bikes tend to have clipless pedals for performance testing and so you don't get the same problem.

 

There is a very interesting thread/debate on the whole topic at;

 

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t233514.html

 

It makes good reading and will help put things in perspective (it's long though)

 

[MWdeJager]

Bikemax,  that link of yours just confirmed that I dislike ric_stern/RST.  He's obviously quite arrogant and somehow seems to insist that everybody that has a different opinion is completely uneducated in his field.  Enough about ric for now.

 

There was an article in Bicycling mag a year or so ago about the world champoin time trialist that averaged over 40km/h on his own over quite some distance, the exact numbers escapes me now.  Point is, he was using pedals/cranks that were disconnected - i.e. you can pedal backwards with one crank while the other stays still.  This in turn forces you to pedal in circles, otherwise your foot that's not pushing down will just stay at the bottom of the pedal stroke - This obviously superior cyclist, contributed a considerable amount of his success to his superior full circle pedal stroke.

 

My 2c regarding pedalling full circle.

[BikeMax]

 

Bikemax' date='  that link of yours just confirmed that I dislike ric_stern/RST.  He's obviously quite arrogant and somehow seems to insist that everybody that has a different opinion is completely uneducated in his field.  Enough about ric for now.

 

There was an article in Bicycling mag a year or so ago about the world champoin time trialist that averaged over 40km/h on his own over quite some distance, the exact numbers escapes me now.  Point is, he was using pedals/cranks that were disconnected - i.e. you can pedal backwards with one crank while the other stays still.  This in turn forces you to pedal in circles, otherwise your foot that's not pushing down will just stay at the bottom of the pedal stroke - This obviously superior cyclist, contributed a considerable amount of his success to his superior full circle pedal stroke.

 

My 2c regarding pedalling full circle.

[/quote']

 

Ric may come across as a little opinionated, he is however very knowledgeable in his field and tends not to lend too much credence to anecdotal evidence (rightly IMO)

 

The cranks you refer to are Power Cranks - I have used a set for 6 months. You will find on the thread I referred you to, considerable discussion about the claims made of these things (40% increase in power) and you will also find that the designer (Frank Day) has not been able to substantiate any of these claims.

 

There are no studies around that have been able to attribute any biomechanical or physiological advantage to pedalling "in circles" in terms of improved power output - which is what matters.

 

 

Bottom line is I would rather spend my valuable training time focusing on training at the right intensity ( a proven method of improving fitness) as opposed to gimmicks that make many unsubstantiated promises of increased power if I use the new device.

 

My 2c

 

[MWdeJager]

I would hate to have to ride with those power cranks.  Way too lazy to even want to pedal full circle all the time. 

 

I have found though, even though I don't ride with a power meter, that closing gaps especially uphill happens much quicker if I concentrate on my pedal technique for the duration of my effort.  Just stomping on the pedals alone, usually leaves the gap wide open, but that's just my unscientific experience.

[fatcyclist]

BikeMax: did you even read the study on the Qring page? Lab tested subjects, the works...

[BikeMax]

 

I would hate to have to ride with those power cranks.  Way too lazy to even want to pedal full circle all the time. 

 

I have found though' date=' even though I don't ride with a power meter, that closing gaps especially uphill happens much quicker if I concentrate on my pedal technique for the duration of my effort.  Just stomping on the pedals alone, usually leaves the gap wide open, but that's just my unscientific experience.

[/quote']

 

They are not much fun - in fact some of the success that guys have attributed to them apparently comes form the fact that anything that hurts that much must be making me better - says a bit about cyclists

 

Your second point is certainly valid - I am unsure as to why this is but it may be due to the fact that by focusing on your pedalling technique, you "unweight" the crank more effectively and allow more effective power transfer on the downstroke..