What is ROAG

[ShaughnK]

Why then are a lot of cycling clubs up in arms about the concept?

 

Are you ser ii uss ? I havent seen a single negative thing about ROAG.

 

Do you have inside info you want to share with us ?

[Wobbles]

Why then are a lot of cycling clubs up in arms about the concept?

 

Are you ser ii uss ? I havent seen a single negative thing about ROAG.

 

Do you have inside info you want to share with us ?

 

I am Chairman of the 2nd biggest cycling club in KZN and clubs are concerned at the erosion of membership by this body and it will be high on the agenda of the next Cycling KZN committee meeting. Clubs are the lifeblood of the sport and just because of the current licensing fiasco we should not allow rogue bodies to undermine us!

[Groot Lem]

cyclists are the lifeblood of this sport, clubs, provinces, csa are there to serve those clients. if clubs offer more they wont lose members, bottom line, now dont flame me, its what i believe, not what i get right

[Mutt]

cyclists are the lifeblood of this sport' date=' clubs, provinces, csa are there to serve those clients.?if clubs offer more they wont lose members,?bottom line, now dont flame me, its what i believe, not what i get right[/quote']

 

 

 

Bang on Brother! - Force me to cough up six hundred bucks for kit I do not want of need! Give me other junk thats useless such as vouchers. Nah sod it. I can subscribe to magazines by myself too.

 

 

 

I signed up with ROAG and it works for me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[linnega]

Groot Lem - you've got it spot on. 

 

I am not sure who the "second biggest club" are (red or yellow).  Either way, the boys in yellow are often up in arms when things change and move forward, the boys in red are sort of involved in ROAG and provide some services, but probably also a little bitter that they were beaten to the punch by ROAG.

 

I like the ROAG concept, particularly for mountain bikers, who for the most part don' like to associate with clubs (for no other reason it seems than because its what roadies do).  This allows MTB to become better organised without all the red tape and admin associate with club fees and license renewals etc.  However, getting more people to better organised races allows newbies to see the benefits of clubs, and will probably have a positive spin-off for the clubs.  I don't see many existing club members dropping their clubs and joining ROAG, but those that do will do so because the club does not give them any benefits and then perhaps the club needs to have a look at itself and what its role is in the cycling community.

 

[Mutt]

Why then are a lot of cycling clubs up in arms about the concept?

 

?

 

Are you ser ii uss ? I havent seen a single negative thing about ROAG.

 

?

 

Do you have inside info you want to share with us ?

 

?

 

I am Chairman of the 2nd biggest cycling club in KZN and clubs are concerned at the erosion of membership by this body and it will be high on the agenda of the next Cycling KZN committee meeting. Clubs are the lifeblood of the sport and just because of the current licensing fiasco we should not allow rogue bodies to undermine us!

 

 

 

It is simple - do something that will attract and keep members rather than whine about a concept that is clearly   more popular that whatever you are doing? This is derived from the statement you made.

 

 

 

An idea - use it / don't use it. I care not either way.

[ShaughnK]

Amazing what happens behind the scenes.

 

I am a (Common or Garden variety) Mavericks member and have also joined ROAG.  Makes life easier at the races if you join ROAG but Mavericks give me the %disc. club kit, club rides ,weekly newletter, magazine subs etc. 

I certainly wouldnt dump my club because of the new Race organizors group, I am a little uncertain why its seen as a threat, I know you can join csa via them, but thats about all I can think of.

[Die Holander]

ROAG for PREZ...

[TimW]

I am involved in ROAG.

Firstly: We are not attacking any clubs. There is no reason riders cannot join any club they want and register with ROAG ... CLUB ROAG is simply an option for people who register with ROAG ... it is not compulsory!!! We provided the club option for one reason only, to get people to join CSA. We wanted to work with CSA on this because CSA said they wanted people to join clubs (this was at a meeting which we called to let them and KZNMTB know what we were doing before we launched). Last year our races had about 70% of the people competing not being members of clubs.

 

Personally I believe strongly in the club structure even though I am not a "club person". If clubs want to keep members they must offer something other than simply taking your money. Some clubs do offer something to members (club rides, functions, prizegivings etc etc) and they deserve their club fees. Others take the money and give nothing back and I think those are the clubs that ROAG may affect -- and no apologies for that.

 

Secondly: The system is designed to make life easier for race organisers (a secure, accurate database that all races who chose to use our system can benefit from) which we believe will make for better organised races (with fewer problems and delays at prizegivings (no more grey haired old men winning the girls under 12 prize because of a mistake in birthdate on the 30th entry form the old man has filled in this year).

 

Thirdly: Riders should benefit hugely because you only have to remember their ROAG number and name and they can enter races quickly and efficiently. No (or certainly shorter) queues and no more entry forms.

 

Fourthly: Finances ... there is a lot of supspicion because we don't charge riders. Initially three races (HIll 2 Hill, Eston and Karkloof) plus a couple of other parties (Concept Events and IT company Quartex) funded the project in terms of time and money, but going forward we hope to cover our costs from races paying for our services, but aim to keep the costs to the races to the same they would be paying for anyway (ie, instead of every race paying for number boards and paying 10 different people to capture manual entry forms our system provides a number board and has one person inputting manual entries using a ROAG number it is much quicker for that person as well.

 

Fifthly: Any race (and not just MTB --- roadies are welcome as well as canoe races, or road running, triathlon, X-Terra type as well) in Gauteng or any other priovince is welcome to contact us and we will see what we can do to help you put on a better event.

 

Everybody involved, bar our secretary, is a mountain  biker who has the sport at heart and wants to improve things.

 

I put my name here because I have nothing to hide!!

 

Tim Whitfield

 

TimW2009-04-23 00:39:00

[TiBones]

 

[TimW]

Why then are a lot of cycling clubs up in arms about the concept?

 

Are you ser ii uss ? I havent seen a single negative thing about ROAG.

 

Do you have inside info you want to share with us ?

 

I am Chairman of the 2nd biggest cycling club in KZN and clubs are concerned at the erosion of membership by this body and it will be high on the agenda of the next Cycling KZN committee meeting. Clubs are the lifeblood of the sport and just because of the current licensing fiasco we should not allow rogue bodies to undermine us!

 

Hi "Wobbles"

 

We are not trying to undermine clubs in any way. ROAG is there primarily as a service to riders and race organisers and thus to the lifeblood of the sport.

 

I understand your concern regarding the "erosion of membership" and it is a valid concern for clubs, but I believe those clubs which offer services to their members will retain their memberships. We make no bones about the fact we are simply offering Roag CLUB members (as opposed to people who register with Roag but do not join the club) nothing other than a facility to register with CSA. We will not be organising club rides, we will not be organising special offers and discounts for club members, we will not be organising prizegivings, or cocktail parties or meet-your-club-buddy evenings.

 

We only went with a "virtual" club option at the request of CSA and KZNMTB.

 

I think what you also must remember is that up to 80% or entrants in MTB races last year were not members of clubs and thus were not registered with CSA. In other words, 80% of MTB riders have no desire to be members of a club structure and we are allowing those people to join CSA and be licenced.

 

Hope that alleviates some of your (and other people's) concerns.

TimW2009-04-23 01:02:40

[Wobbles]

Hi Tim

 

Perhaps if you had communicated with the clubs as well it would have helped cast your body in a more favourable light. Here are some concerns from some of our members:-

 

"Do you know what the story is with ROAG?  I have either heard or read in their communications the following about them

They create an environment where there is no motivation to join a club (you can get your licence through ROAG). In my opinion, this is bad for our club and for cycling in general. It has been shown that where clubs are strong, all sports grow.

There are rumours that at least one of the organisers tried something similar in canoeing. The rumour was not complimentary!

Personally, I find their approach threatening. The easy registration at races that they claim was all available to Cyclosport licenced riders at all the Classic MTB races for the last two years. To say ?No registration, no time?, or even worse, ?no registration, no race? is unacceptable."

" I did know most of the info on their ?about? web site. It is a clever bit of marketing. I thought compulsory licencing with CSA would put all the necessary info on one data base (it worked pretty well for the last two seasons in the Classics). Instead, we have another data base. And their claim that it costs nothing has to be total garbage (these are businessmen who won?t be putting their own cash into supporting cycling). There has to be a cost, however carefully hidden.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

I support licencing. I was a licenced athlete from 1965 until about six or seven years ago. It works well and strengthens the clubs, so it helps the sport.

 

At this stage, I intend to avoid ROAG events and to encourage others to do the same. I may have a problem as I want to ride Hill2Hill, but will face that problem when we get closer to the time! (and hope they don?t block me)"

[Madala]

 

What is ROAG?

 

As I see it ROAG is everything that CSA and all their affiliates should be but have failed dismally to deliver. No wonder there are some people up in arms about it. Their little ivory towers are being exposed to scrutiny and are crumbling rapidly!

 

ROAG has managed to create a mountain bike seeding system that is working and ROAG did all the work to capture past results and come up with seedings. All you had to do was enter your details once. Pay nothing and it all worked. From announcement of the system to seedings for the first race was only a few months.

 

For the last 5 years CSA have been threatening that if you don't have  a licence you won't be seeded. Sad reality is that they have not managed to develop a seeding system to enforce this "threat". At some of the races the "top fifty" riders are asked to come to the front of the start chute - not sure how that is decided but fortunately mountain bikers are generally well behaved and it sort of works for the top contenders I suppose. I have finished in the top 3 in my age category for the past two years but choose to start mid field.

 

ROAG are now issuing free permanent number boards to be used for events that they administer and I believe that they will be issuing a timing chip to be used at all the events that they administer.

 

The on-line entry system is up and running properly. Unlike the CSA licencing system which they have been "fine tuning" for the last year or more.

 

I am in no way associated with ROAG but as a montain biker they have delivered far more to me in the past few months than CSA have done in the past 15 years! The big bonus is that it has not cost me one cent.

 

As I see it ROAG are setting the benchmark in terms of what can and should be delivered in terms of administration services.

 

The sad thing is that CSA have had a golden opportunity to build themselves a strong revenue stream by developing a system that delivers and they have been too arrogant or useless to grab the opportunity.

 

I think a newsletter that I received recently highlights the problem. CSA or CGC were heaping praise on themselves for the "success" of the licencing system. As of the end of March they claimed to have issued about 9000 licences. That is a dismal failure as early in March the Argus had 35000 entries and all of those were supposed to have some sort of licence.

 

As I see it ROAG is the admin equivalent of Sani2c organisation. They just do it right!

 

I assume that their revenue stream comes from the fees that they charge to the organisers for their on-line entry system, seeding, timing and results services. This ultimately comes out of the entry fees but no one minds paying for a service that works.

 

Well done and keep up the good work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Madala2009-04-23 06:47:27

[Aicorner]

I applaud ROAG's efforts but am concerned that its services are available to only some race organisers and those races are exclusive seeding events for each other.

This could result in another Winning Time/Argus/94,7 cartel.

 

Why the need for exclusivity ?

[Wobbly]

I applaud ROAG's efforts but am concerned that its services are available to only some race organisers and those races are exclusive seeding events for each other.

This could result in another Winning Time/Argus/94' date='7 cartel.

 

Why the need for exclusivity ?

[/quote']

 

Fifthly: Any race (and not just MTB --- roadies are welcome as well as canoe races' date=' or road running, triathlon, X-Terra type as well) in Gauteng or any other priovince is welcome to contact us and we will see what we can do to help you put on a better event.[/quote']

Wobbly2009-04-23 08:15:20

[Aicorner]

Not my info (I was told by a race organiser that ROAG had declined to include them as a seeding race) - but lets hear what TimW has to say.