Lotus Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Sadly another motorcyclist was killed this morning on the uphill stretch between Toadbury Hall and Valverde. He had hit a taxi, but it's hard to know exactly what happened. Our thoughts are with the family. What did get my blood up this morning was a large group (about 30 - no club kit was recognisable) riding up to 5 abreast, up to the centre line of the road, on the M5/Beyers Naude Rd heading north about 2 kms past the highway (at about 7h45, in case anyone else noticed this). This group was chatting happily, totally oblivious to the cars backed up behind them. As I rode on, I came to the sad and inescapable conclusion that no amount of cyclist etiquette training is ever going to get through to these types. They are either very selfish or very ignorant (or both). However, they can't be ignored or excused, because it is this very type that are causing problems for responsible cyclists. That got me to thinking (and here's where the flaming maybe starts) - can they be punished into behaving? What if our representative cycling body (like CSA?) got together with the Metro cops (no, bear with me here) and patrolled some of the popular weekend routes and pulled these people over for transgressing laws such as blocking roads and running red lights and stop streets. Sanctions could include tickets, and even CSA sanctions like license suspension or being barred from future events. Perhaps that's the kind of wake up these people need? As I said, maybe some flames will come of this, but I really think the carrot approach is not working. Time for a stick?
skelmpie Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Lotus do you suggest a group of 30 should ride single file?
chucky Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 really sorry to hear the sad news.We as cyclists have to spread the word amongst our fellow cyclists to ride safe ,as we would not ride with someone without a helmut ,we must be responsible for ourselves ,this is excactly what they are complaining about on the cradle route.No amout of policing will help ,we must sort the offenders out ourseleves
Minion Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 What if our representative cycling body (like CSA?) got together with the Metro cops (no' date=' bear with me here) and patrolled some of the popular weekend routes and pulled these people over for transgressing laws such as blocking roads and running red lights and stop streets. Sanctions could include tickets, and even CSA sanctions like license suspension or being barred from future events.[/quote']I can just hear the howls of "Why don't you go and catch 'real criminals' or pull over taxis?" Edman2009-10-25 04:47:11
David #7 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Why do we not just ride up to these folk and politely tell them that they are being un safe. I do, I know chucky would. If we all just do uor bit we would not have to have these boring chats on sunday afternoons.
Lotus Posted October 25, 2009 Author Posted October 25, 2009 I can just hear the howls of "Why don't you go and catch 'real criminals' or pull over taxis?" Sadly that's exactly what will happen. On the other hand' date=' if CSA (or whoever) puts them on an Offenders List (which the clubs should maybe reference when taking membership applications) then these people will start becoming aware of what's right and wrong on the road. As things stand there are no consequences for bad behaviour. We expect the motorists to treat us as rightful road users. Surely the same rules and sanctions apply to both groups? Lotus do you suggest a group of 30 should ride single file? No, unless road conditions dictate it. Do you think riding 5 abreast is okay?
David #7 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 I can just hear the howls of "Why don't you go and catch 'real criminals' or pull over taxis?" Sadly that's exactly what will happen. On the other hand' date=' if CSA (or whoever) puts them on an Offenders List (which the clubs should maybe reference when taking membership applications) then these people will start becoming aware of what's right and wrong on the road. As things stand there are no consequences for bad behaviour.We expect the motorists to treat us as rightful road users. Surely the same rules and sanctions apply to both groups?[quote=skelmpie']Lotus do you suggest a group of 30 should ride single file?No, unless road conditions dictate it. Do you think riding 5 abreast is okay? There are a few places out on the cradle route that you would have to be brain dead not to ride single file, no matter how big the bunch might be.
skelmpie Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 As a fellow cyclist I am shocked of your ignorance towards group safety on the road. In case you didn't know this. But once a group is more than 4 it safer to ride double file, if it is more than 8-10 it is safer to bunch up as it creates a nice compact group. Which makes it safer and easier to overtake and riders can have a chit-chat..win win situation
Santa C Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 As a fellow cyclist I am shocked of your ignorance towards group safety on the road. In case you didn't know this. But once a group is more than 4 it safer to ride double file' date=' if it is more than 8-10 it is safer to bunch up as it creates a nice compact group. Which makes it safer and easier to overtake and riders can have a chit-chat..win win situation[/quote'] Don't agree with you Skelmpie...Dose not matter how many riders that ride in a bunch, they should not be blocking traffic and taking over the road, If we follow the rules of the road we should all ride on the shoulder!!
Guest Agteros Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Whatever is safer or better or more convenient in the eyes of the transgressor is of no consequence as the law states that cyclists should ride single file. END OF STORY! How dare cyclists demand respect from other road users if they do not comply with the law themselves? Sanctioned races are different and there bunches are allowed / tolerated. Just keep to the left of the white line. There is no excuse to not ride single file on a training ride. If you want to have a chit-chat with your fellow cyclists go to a coffee shop, and take your helmet off once you get off your bike. Oh and skelmpie, as a fellow South African I'm shocked at your lack of the law.Agteros2009-10-25 07:18:03
Guest Agteros Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 strongs to the family and loved ones of the fallen motorcyclist.
Santa C Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Whatever is safer or better or more convenient in the eyes of the transgressor is of no consequence as the law states that cyclists should ride single file. END OF STORY! How dare cyclists demand respect from other road users if they do not comply with the law themselves? Sanctioned races are different and there bunches are allowed / tolerated. Just keep to the left of the white line. There is no excuse to not ride single file on a training ride.If you want to have a chit-chat with your fellow cyclists go to a coffee shop' date=' and take your helmet off once you get off your bike.Oh and skelmpie, as a fellow South African I'm shocked at your lack of the law.[/quote']
101SCC Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 never great news, on the topic of safety / law. this will never be resolved. Bottom line is in order for it to work you need courtesy from all road users, unfortunately, here in SA (particularly) gauteng, courtesy is a swear word. It's all about me myself and I. Pity that's what we have to deal with. I find there are groups of people who want to co exist on the road and others that hate cyclists. Friction will always exist between these guys and us. Riding single file is unrealistic over a 3.5 hour ride even a 30min ride. Find good routes and try and think of everyone on the road. SELF policing is better than any carrot or stick.
skelmpie Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Whatever is safer or better or more convenient in the eyes of the transgressor is of no consequence as the law states that cyclists should ride single file. END OF STORY! How dare cyclists demand respect from other road users if they do not comply with the law themselves? Sanctioned races are different and there bunches are allowed / tolerated. Just keep to the left of the white line. There is no excuse to not ride single file on a training ride.If you want to have a chit-chat with your fellow cyclists go to a coffee shop' date=' and take your helmet off once you get off your bike.Oh and skelmpie, as a fellow South African I'm shocked at your lack of the law.[/quote'] Yes, and those same laws says that you may not stand and pedal and swing your bike from side to side among all kinds of nonsense. The point is the South African laws need to have a complete revamp. Okay consider this a group of 30cyclist riding files that makes a group length of +-60m(2m from rider to rider). No say this group is going at 9m/s(32.4km/h) and a car passes them at 16m/s(57.6km/h). That would mean it would take +-9s or 154meters to pass the group of 30guys. Lets throw a truck coming from the front at similiar speed in the mix. That means if the truck is within 308meters from the motorist when he passes the cyclists, that the motorist will not be able to make it, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which route he will choose to avoid the truck or oncoming traffic. Now lets say this group of 30cyclist bunch up and make their inherent bunch length say something more in the region of 20meters. It will take the car only 3seconds or 48meters to pass. Another point is often a motorist will pass a long group of cyclists only to realize halfway that he/she must turn left. Again global f-up!
cat-i Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 As a fellow cyclist I am shocked of your ignorance towards group safety on the road. In case you didn't know this. But once a group is more than 4 it safer to ride double file' date=' if it is more than 8-10 it is safer to bunch up as it creates a nice compact group. Which makes it safer and easier to overtake and riders can have a chit-chat..win win situation[/quote'] win-win?
mudda Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 What are the opinions on: If a cyclist gets his support crew to follow him in a car, and they protect him from the back. He is in single file and obeying the law. Yet they are taking the whole lane, by obeying the law. The traffic must pass round them.
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