Update cradleroute meeting

[BrettAS]

Part of the problem is that it is virtually impossible to identify road cyclists as opposed to motor vehicles. if each bicyle had a visible permanent number on it, that number could be reported, together with a photo to CSA? and that cyclist disciplined. obviously we need a set of "road usage rules" for cyclists that both cyclists and motorists are aware of. for instance "is it legal to ride 2 abreast?"

[tabasco]

Hi Chucky

The conduct of cyclists is the issue in question. The residents are reacting' date=' sometimes in an inappropriate manner, but they are not the cause of the problem.

In the absence of effective law enforcement by JMPD and SAPS, self regulation by cyclists is probably the only effective solution.

May I suggest that the Thinktank you have setup, including the major clubs, develop and adopt a code of conduct that is published through all relevant media and club channels. Cyclists should be encouraged to sign this code of conduct (possibly a condition of club membership).

When I look at the photos published elsewhere, the offenders seem to fall into three categories:

1. Competent cyclists who make an occasional transgression. Like all road users, mistakes happen. Sometimes the transgression is a conscious decision to avoid another risk, for example glass in the cycle lane. These are the least of your problem, but heightened awareness will keep the focus on good road safety.

2. Competent cyclists who think they are above the law. These are evidenced by aggressive retaliatory behaviour when shown to be out of line. These are people who in spite of a knowledge of the law and safe cycling principles, just don't give a damn. It is quite easy to spot these on the Hub and on the road. This is the area that Clubs need to apply sanction because they endanger the lives of others on the ride and tarnish the name of the Club and the Sponsors.

3.  Unskilled cyclists. These guys and girls are new to the sport and are desperate to complete the course in safety. Their skills and safety knowledge is lacking. In my own experience, these are the cyclists who most often weave unpredictably into the road. The answer is education. They want to learn these skills. Is this not a massive opportunity for the clubs to recruit new members with the safety of a group ride, support vehicle and the entry level training?

I believe that a critical part of any Code of Conduct is that groups select a Ride Captain before a ride who plays a monitoring role. Very similar to the group ride marshals used by the major clubs. This person should understand the Code of Conduct and be comfortable pointing out where someone does ride in an unsafe or inappropriate manner. This will contribute to the education of cyclists who don't perhaps understand certain safety practices. Those who don't give a damn will soon be ejected from the group by social pressure.

Managing a group of people who have very little common affiliation can be difficult. I believe that it needs to be fashionable to be safe. Let's make being safe the hot topic of conversation. (This is a very different conversation to the current: Who's right and who's wrong, that is currently happening).

Safety is a habit whether you are cycling or operating a mine. The sooner we implement practices that encourage habitually safe riding, the sooner accidents will fall and the aggression will subside.

The sooner will come the day when the Cradle residents welcome us for our spending power in their economy.

Hope this contributes to the debate and, more importantly, the solution.

Cheers
Dave


[/quote']

 

 

 

 All so true, very well put

[davem]

I see no reason why a club cannot use a Suspension as sanction.

 

Hypothetical situation:

A rider on a Club ride behaves unacceptably and does not respond to the marshall's instructions. He quietly gets asked his name at the end of the ride and then receives a phonecall later that day asking him not to ride the following week as he has been suspended due to unacceptable behaviour. He is welcome to return when the suspension is completed.

 

The rider has the option:

- to shout and scream which will make his name mud even more

- politely accept the suspension, make an excuse to his buddies that he has to wash his hair the following Saturday, and return a wiser, safer cyclist.

 

Second suspension within a 6 month period goes in the club newsletter.

 

Peer pressure is an amazingly powerful tool.

 

[Daft Vader]

Fatboyslim is an idiot.

 

[Drinks@Brawn]

I had to go to the shops, so I cycled.

I must have 5 Stop streets on my route. Within a matter of 5 mins I was given the right of way, at two seperate stop streets. Yes I do show the driver that I am going to stop and I stop.

[Trubie]

I see no reason why a club cannot use a Suspension as sanction.

Hypothetical situation:
A rider on a Club ride behaves unacceptably and does not respond to the marshall's instructions. He quietly gets asked his name at the end of the ride and then receives a phonecall later that day asking him not to ride the following week as he has been suspended due to unacceptable behaviour. He is welcome to return when the suspension is completed.

The rider has the option:
- to shout and scream which will make his name mud even more
- politely accept the suspension' date=' make an excuse to his buddies that he has to wash his hair the following Saturday, and return a wiser, safer cyclist.

Second suspension within a 6 month period goes in the club newsletter.

Peer pressure is an amazingly powerful tool.
[/quote']

sensible suggestion, just not sure how it will be policed or put in practice. Can be used for other transgressions such as littering while racing, etc, etc.. Bottom line is we all have a responsibility towards each other when it comes to matters like these. A motorist doesnt care who it was, he cares that it was a cyclist, so next time he sees one 9even one who does everything 100% correct0, its still a cyclist and he might be outraged and take his frustration out on that rider..

 

It takes one bad apple.

 

[Trapper]

It takes personal responsibility - abide by Road rules, abide by general cycling rules, be a positive road user, and work together to resolve the problem.

 

There are many good suggestions here (apart from fining the club) which individuals, group rides and clubs could implement and work towards IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT THE MOTORISTS do. Keep our side clean, and eventually 3 or 4 good cyclists will show the motorist that the 1 misadjusted guy, is just 1, and not all cyclists.

 

I must be honest, being a roadie and off-road cyclist, i've seen good and bad on both sides. I also have to say that in nearly 10 years of road cycling, i've only had 3 bad encounters with cars - and that includes taxi's.  Most drivers will be kind, will give right of way, and take care NOT to endanger the cyclist's situation.

 

WRT Cradle - I believe that all cyclists should work to make the cradle a safe and welcome place, by doing all the GOOD points above, and not pointing fingers... oh and the same goes for Suikerbosrand.

 

Cheers

[Lotus]

 

Just a thought - how about the clubs sponsoring cycling-specific road signs on the Cradle route, along the lines of reminders to keep left, be nice/considerate, contact numbers for club enquiries, emergencies numbers, etc. Not all of that info on one board - have many boards which each have a message.

 

The signs should also have a cycling motif which will draw motorists and bikers attention to the fact that there are cyclists in the area (yes I know there are some cyclist signs out there, but this is different because the target is the cyclist AND the motorist).

 

 

 

 

Lotus2009-11-12 12:11:20

[Daft Vader]

If you have never been on the committe of a bigger club, then you have absolutely no idea as to how difficult it is to enforce.

 

3/4 of the people who claim that they obide by rules and hence ride alone are full of sh*t.  When the associations such a CSA, GC etc insist that people become members of clubs so that the sport may be regulated a little better, then everyone cries that there is a conspiracy to fleece cyclists and that they get no value.

 

For those that join, they claim that they join a big club due to the safety concern and there is safety in numbers.  But I'm afraid, we saffers are just loathe to obey the rules.  This is demonstrated in many examples.  Some of these include:-

 

1)  We get a speeding fine, don't pay it and then complain when we are arrested at a roadblock because the police should be catching real criminals.

2)  I have heard many complaints about people going for a looksee on what living in Australia is like, and then we complain that it is too rigid and the people are anal because they abide by the rules.

3)  We ride our bikes however the hell we want, because who are you to tell me what to do.

4)  We flout the traffic rules.

5)  We drink and Drive.

6)  We make alterations to our houses and properties because it is too incenvenient to get our plans approved.

 

There are many more examples.

 

To the residents of the cradle.  You do not own the area.  You own some property in the area.  That is like me telling motorists who skip traffic lights (and there are alot of them) that they must ****off and may not be there.  What gives me the right???  NOTHING.

 

You try and take me off my bike (on the very odd occasion that I ride on the road), and I will lay a charge of attempted murder.

 

For all road users, including idiot cyclists, show some consideration to others.  Don't expect everyone to wipe your special little arse, or to give way because you think you are so important.

 

[MarkU]

FBS' date=' you don't seem to care as much about the outcome as much as you do about somebody paying. What's your real agenda??

[/quote'] simple, big clubs seem to rule things, price fixing on bikes, dictating price's for race's, list list goes on. We have lost what riding should be about, enjoying riding,  Clubs should take ownership of what thier member do, take golf, if you step out of line then you get fined, or even expelled from the club, not in 'the riding clubs', do what you like mantallity!

 

"BETTER TO REMAIN QUIET AND SEEM STUPID, THAN OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT"

[davem]

I do believe South Africans can obey rules. The critical bit is enforcement.

 

A few years ago, I attended a function in Maputo with about 300 South Africans and ten locals. Mozambique had no smoking laws.

 

Amazingly, despite the fact that the locals smoked in the function hall, every single South African smoker went outside to smoke.

 

I believe it shows that we do have the capability to learn how to obey the law once we understand that it will be enforced. If also reinforces my earlier point that safety must be learned as a habit.

 

[Gasping]

FBS' date=' you don't seem to care as much about the outcome as much as you do about somebody paying. What's your real agenda??

[/quote'] simple, big clubs seem to rule things, price fixing on bikes, dictating price's for race's, list list goes on. We have lost what riding should be about, enjoying riding,  Clubs should take ownership of what thier member do, take golf, if you step out of line then you get fined, or even expelled from the club, not in 'the riding clubs', do what you like mantallity!

 

"BETTER TO REMAIN QUIET AND SEEM STUPID, THAN OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT"

 

So MarkU, are you saying that FatBoy is not so slim?

[Guest Big H]

 i still think the club should be fined!!!!!! all that ride in club should be fined' date=' this will stop whats happening quickly and keep things going, want's it hit's the packet's then things change very quickly! big club's need to learn!!!![/quote']

 

So I'll be riding in my Cyclelab kit this weekend?  And next weekend in my Bruce kit.

 

Nice idea! 

 

Recreational bicycles (the one that normally behave badly) should have number plates ..... front and back!!!!!

[Go Slow]

 

There are many more examples.

 

To the residents of the cradle.  You do not own the area.  You own some property in the area.  That is like me telling motorists who skip traffic lights (and there are alot of them) that they must ****off and may not be there.  What gives me the right???  NOTHING.

 

You try and take me off my bike (on the very odd occasion that I ride on the road)' date=' and I will lay a charge of attempted murder.

 

For all road users, including idiot cyclists, show some consideration to others.  Don't expect everyone to wipe your special little arse, or to give way because you think you are so important.

 

[/quote']

 

Agree 100%. We need to be more considired to each other. Thats why I prefer MTB, but unfortuantly I also have to spend a lot time with my Roadie friends.

[Danger Dassie]

 

"going to meetings to hear about the problum is not helping anybody.All that is going to happen,is that promises are made,and a follow up meeting scheduled that never happens.

Residents are not interested in the structure,politics and the ins and out of cycling"

 

With that attitude, how do the residents bloody well expect things to get better.

Seems to be a stuff you attitude that was mentioned in the other recent Cradle thread.

 

Mark thanks to yourself, Ian and co from both sides for at least making an attempt on working out a solution. A shame though that some seem to be as pig headed about the situation.