18 months for nolan

[fandacious]

some interesting opinions here...

 

 

 

however, when i suggested a strong sentence for an ex-tcs rider, i was crucified.

 

 

 

what has changed?

[fandacious]

Even 4 years is alot in a pro athletes life. ?

 

 

 

good... maybe it will stop them from doping.

 

 

 

if the punishment isnt harsh, then they will continue cheating.

[Andyr249]

Life time ban wont stop it. Think of someone who is not quite good enough to win' date=' there but not quite, so he dopes. What has he got to lose. If he is caught he is out and was not going to win anyway and if he is not caught perhaps he can win. In Saudi people are beheaded but still they commit offences. Women are murdered in honor killings but still people are having extramarital sex. People regularly risk Thailand prison sentences to smuggle drugs.

Put this in context. Some kid drugs to go faster on a bike and we ruin his life. I believe people need second chances. It has worked for me. Also don't make the mistake of assuming your motivations for the actions of others. Perhaps Nolan's motivation was not the money but the wish to not disappoint the people that had put work in to him and supported him and so he made a stupid decision and took a risk. He ended up disappointing them even more fundamentally but that is another story.

To assume a motivation of monetary gain, and then basing a criminal case of fraud on this untested motivation is reaching just a little. [/quote']

 

If there are 10 dopers and you threaten life bans then maybe 6 of them will think that it is not worth it. There are still 4 dopers but at least there are 6 clean rider more in the peloton!

 

No, he ruined his own life! Everyone who is connected to cycle racing has heard of the doping problem and has to be aware of it and the consequences. By deciding to try doping that rider is then and there ruining his life. Life has consequences. By deciding to do certain actions we have to accept the consequences of those actions. Life is harsh but that is just bad luck and something we all have to live with. If you mess up then you have to life with the consequences of your mess up whatever they are. You can't plead second or third or whatever chances. Perhaps Nolan would be a much better person and the "people that had put work in to him and supported him" would have seen him as a better person if he had gone to him and said, "Look, I have this knee injury that is not healing. Please help me and support me to get it sorted." They would've had to have helped him. What comes to mind when you think of Lance and Cofidis? Cofidis dropped Lance when he was diagnosed with cancer. That leaves a worse taste than Phonak pulling the sponsorship because of Landis.

[ASTANA]

 

But they only admit after being caught!!

 

Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs...

 

"I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins"

 

Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all.

 

others don't bother.

 

2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate ' date=' show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat.

 

One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair

[/quote']

 

And deny the good results to a rider who is clean but can't achieve them because he is beaten by a "remorseful" doper? If you are a doper you are a doper!

 

So once a criminal always `n criminal ?

 

Why do we have prisons then ? (Talking in general not SA only.)

 

Why not just kill young criminals with the first offense, because rehab is a joke and a cover up for corrupt people ? We don't want these people in society so why give them the chance to proof us wrong ?

 

If the same happened to Nelson Mandela then it was tickets for him as well.

 

[Red Zone]

Astana, a pro rider is debating whether to dope or not. Now he knows that if he co-operates and sheds a tear or two he is only going down for 18 months. That could make it worth the risk for a underperforming rider knowing that if he doesn't dope he wont be making it into the big league 

[Kritzie]

But they only admit after being caught!!

Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs...

"I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins"

Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all.

others don't bother.

2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate ' date=' show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat.

One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair
[/quote']

 

And deny the good results to a rider who is clean but can't achieve them because he is beaten by a "remorseful" doper? If you are a doper you are a doper!

So once a criminal always `n criminal ?

Why do we have prisons then ? (Talking in general not SA only.)

Why not just kill young criminals with the first offense, because rehab is a joke and a cover up for corrupt people ? We don't want these people in society so why give them the chance to proof us wrong ?

If the same happened to Nelson Mandela then it was tickets for him as well.

Once a criminal always a criminal - Yup its called a criminal record and its permanent!!!!

[Andyr249]

Astana' date=' you are right banning stops his career.

 

If I am an accountant (that is my profession as Nolan's profession in cycling), I assist a client is perpetuating a fraud and take a backhander and get caught. My career is over. Simply barred from the profession, never practice again. Why should it be different for a pro cyclist.

 

He took drugs for financial gain. I assisted fraud for financial gain, where is the difference.

[/quote']

Its a tough one.

bu you get the idea of 2nd chances ? Life ban is hard man. Even 4 years is alot in a pro athletes life.





 

 

So not being able to practice as an accountant is also hard. But that is life and if that cuts down of the number of accountants that assist in committing fraud then that is good. Life bans in cycling are the same thing. One is just accounting and the other is cycling. Principle is the same!

[nikki]

What I respect Nolan for is that he said up front that he took Perf Enhancing Drugs because is perfomance was not up to scratch. He did not hide behind the excuse that he did'nt know what he was taking or he took cough medicine, or his doctor prescribed something etc etc like nearly all others that have been caught.  So yes, one needs to give him credit for his honestly.

[Kritzie]

What I respect Nolan for is that he said up front that he took Perf Enhancing Drugs because is perfomance was not up to scratch. He did not hide behind the excuse that he did'nt know what he was taking or he took cough medicine' date=' or his doctor prescribed something etc etc like nearly all others that have been caught.  So yes, one needs to give him credit for his honestly.

[/quote']

No excuses he just got caught!!

Honesty at the end is not an excuse for criminal behaviour.

Nolan is a criminal end of story.

 

They should give these guys a criminal record, what they do = FRAUD!!!

[Red Zone]

But they only admit after being caught!!

Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs...

"I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins"

Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all.

others don't bother.

2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate ' date=' show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat.

One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair
[/quote']

 

And deny the good results to a rider who is clean but can't achieve them because he is beaten by a "remorseful" doper? If you are a doper you are a doper!

So once a criminal always `n criminal ?

Why do we have prisons then ? (Talking in general not SA only.)

Why not just kill young criminals with the first offense, because rehab is a joke and a cover up for corrupt people ? We don't want these people in society so why give them the chance to proof us wrong ?

If the same happened to Nelson Mandela then it was tickets for him as well.

 

Dude stoppit, that hole is going to be too big to get out of soon.

[Andyr249]

But they only admit after being caught!!

Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs...

"I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins"

Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all.

others don't bother.

2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate ' date=' show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat.

One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair
[/quote']

 

And deny the good results to a rider who is clean but can't achieve them because he is beaten by a "remorseful" doper? If you are a doper you are a doper!

So once a criminal always `n criminal ?

Why do we have prisons then ? (Talking in general not SA only.)

Why not just kill young criminals with the first offense, because rehab is a joke and a cover up for corrupt people ? We don't want these people in society so why give them the chance to proof us wrong ?

If the same happened to Nelson Mandela then it was tickets for him as well.

 

It was tickets for him. 27 years! So we should ban dopers for 27 years now?

And they used to kill criminals with the first offence! They used to tie a rope around your neck for your actions. In some states of the USA and other countries in the world they still do that or give you a nice chair to sit in or give you a needle with some dope in! But I think that while crimes are similar the principle is slightly different. By doping you are violating the ethical and professional standards of the profession of cycling. Violate the ethical and professional standards of Accounting or Law or Medicine and you are barred from practicing in those professions. So, dope in cycling and you should be barred from practising that profession! Simple.

[Spinnekop]

I think the solution is very simple.

 

Implement a "criminal charge" against doping.  That way the guy gets bust he will go sit with Bubba in the tjoekie.....

 

try running with shaved, tanned legs around in a 2 x 4, Bubba screaming....If I catch you, http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/lieb62.gif

 

 

Spinnekop2010-02-10 06:13:23

[Andyr249]

What I respect Nolan for is that he said up front that he took Perf Enhancing Drugs because is perfomance was not up to scratch. He did not hide behind the excuse that he did'nt know what he was taking or he took cough medicine' date=' or his doctor prescribed something etc etc like nearly all others that have been caught.  So yes, one needs to give him credit for his honestly.

[/quote']

 

But he still took Performance Enhancing Drugs. And people involved in the sport of cycling and especially professional riders know the consequences. It has certainly being extremely well publicised over many many years. They know it is wrong and they know the consequences. If they say they didn't know about the doping issue/problem in cycling then they are clearly fibbing because ask many non-cyclists and that is what they will say about cycling! He took it and he knew the consequences. He was caught and must live with them. What would happen if I went to Monte Casino and put some money in the slots? I know that there is a risk of losing my money. If I don't win can I go to the casino management and say, "Yes, I am being honest. I did put money in the slot machine. I lost my money. Can I please have my money back for a second chance?"

[ASTANA]

This topic will have different view points and not all people will agree - that's life.

 

Its like the Lance vs the rest story - some have a opinion others disagree.

 

To believe in second chances is good. We moved away from the death penalty because of that. I'm not saying let them off easily - just saying life is too much for a first time offender in sport.

 

Sport is still sport - whether professional or not. Its suppose to be the love of the game and to kill someone by banning him for life for a mis step is just harsh.

 

Like I said before - Its hard enough to make a comeback after 2 years, so if you increase the minimum sentence to lets say 4 years it surely will let people think twice??

 You also have a "doping record" - unofficially in the public's eye and officially on the UCI records) so its lesson learned.

 

If you cant learn from that then another ban for lets say 6 years is handed. + The guy/girl may now never be part of professional sport or cycling again.

 

so if your 20 years old and gets a positive 2 times its 10 years out of the pro circuit - that is game over for you. If you somehow have the guts and mindset to make a comeback and caught again - Life ban from all sport

 

Better still if countries made it a criminal offense to dope - but that will only result in riders immigrating - so not a long term solution.

 

The life of a pro athlete (endurance sport) is +-40 years of age - there are some exceptions though.

 

So 10 years is alot for 2 positives.

 

Imagine your pro career start at age 16 (that only 24 years to be top pro - min - max age)

 

 

[ASTANA]

 

What I respect Nolan for is that he said up front that he took Perf Enhancing Drugs because is perfomance was not up to scratch. He did not hide behind the excuse that he did'nt know what he was taking or he took cough medicine' date=' or his doctor prescribed something etc etc like nearly all others that have been caught.  So yes, one needs to give him credit for his honestly.

[/quote']

 

But he still took Performance Enhancing Drugs. And people involved in the sport of cycling and especially professional riders know the consequences. It has certainly being extremely well publicised over many many years. They know it is wrong and they know the consequences. If they say they didn't know about the doping issue/problem in cycling then they are clearly fibbing because ask many non-cyclists and that is what they will say about cycling! He took it and he knew the consequences. He was caught and must live with them. What would happen if I went to Monte Casino and put some money in the slots? I know that there is a risk of losing my money. If I don't win can I go to the casino management and say, "Yes, I am being honest. I did put money in the slot machine. I lost my money. Can I please have my money back for a second chance?"

 

I hear you. And I hear most of you guys on the "Give them a hard ban so everyone else is scared off"

 

, thing is - there needs to be a option for forgiveness and 2nd change , its not like they killed someone - maybe killed someones dream, yes.

 

Its the riders choice to then decide if he wants to take that 2nd chance after the ban - face all the difficulties of a comeback and face the music in papers and media.

 

If not chicken out and leave the sport. You were a complete cheat anyway.

 

Riders who failed and got into some bad things like doping and cheating who comes back after the initial ban to show character and to proof everyone wrong, are the one's I'm trying to protect and give a 2nd chance.

 

Make the initial ban hard on the riders to make the choice easier to not dope - but give a chance to the one's who do fall into that trap due to pressure or what ever.

 

 

 

 

 

[Andyr249]

If rider emmigrate then that is good. It will leave the clean riders behind. Take Oscar Perreiro. He won the Tour because Landis was disqualified. But who stood on the top step in Paris - Landis. Perreiro, being the clean rider, was denied the emotion and glory of standing on the top step of the Tour de France.

Sport is not still sport! Maybe 30 years ago yes. But today sport is business as is everything else. That is the reality of it. If in business the accountant or lawyer or doctor does something wrong they can't practice their business/profession anymore. Why the difference with cycling? Why the difference with any sport? If you think that sport is still sport then you are incredibly naive!!!!!