Tumbleweed Posted February 10, 2010 Share Why the difference and other chances? As was mentioned in other careers it is one strike and you are out! So why not cycling?They need to start making proper examples. Nolan gets 18 months. So what does that say? Let me try dope but if I get caught I will co-operate and get 18 month ban and then I am still young enough to try redeem myself. That is a fabulous example isn't it? What they need to do is start criminalising doping as I believe some European countries have done. Send them for a spell with Bubba and I'm sure they will get the message.18 months is almost nothing so youngsters will take that chance. Make it longer and they will definitely start thinking more before. He broke the rule and must start paying a proper price! In addition to the bans teams should start not contracting riders who have been caught for doping. Or at least sponsors should put start putting the pressure on. They have somewhat by pulling sponsorship but not enough. Take Vino for example: I am a sponsor who sponsors a team. The team hires Vino. Vino and my company name are associated together. I would not want that. The only way too clean up cycling is to hit the pockets! Without sponsorship money professional cycling can't operate. Teams and riders will quickly step into line! good post, but bad example. vino is astana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperw Posted February 10, 2010 Share Have to agree with Eldron. The current penalty is way to lenient. This is, afterall, a career. When one is caught cheating in the work environment it's tickets and burger flippin time. Astana, if you give someone two chances before giving them a life time ban, it shows weakness. If someone has cheated twice, get lost and do not come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASTANA Posted February 10, 2010 Share My 2 cents worth:-If the mandatory sentence was a lifetime ban - a lot that still use will think twice........As the saying goes 'if you can't do the time' date=' don't do the crime!'[/quote'] True. But you got to allow for some leniency towards people who admit the crime and through circumstances ended up doing the wrong thing. Like everything out there - everyone can make a mistake at anytime in their life - one has to grant someone the opportunity to show he is better than that and be a better person. if I doped and had to serve a ban - I would never return to competition - its just humiliating and its impossible to repair all the damage. To have to option to return will just be good for rehabilitation. especially young riders who don't really understand the influence of their actions. 4yr's (1st time) , 6yr's (2nd time - may never work in a competitive cycling team or manage one) , 3rd (LIFE - nothing to do with cycling ever again) harsh enough ? Easy to say just BAN then all for LIFE... just think there should be a less harsh way to start off with? Increase the min sentence. Sportsman only have X amount of time to preform - taking away a few years is bad enough - no need to ban them for life. In everyday life - fraud in business should be punished more because one can work a lot more years than you would be a competitive pro athlete, so there are other areas where you can focus your time and recover from your mistake - still not easy but doable - some company might give you a shot after you served your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen62 Posted February 10, 2010 Share But they only admit after being caught!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerhardc Posted February 10, 2010 Share Maybe a 6 months reduction when you actually go to the Administrators and reveal before any scheduled doping tests that you doped!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMartin Posted February 10, 2010 Share Life time ban wont stop it. Think of someone who is not quite good enough to win, there but not quite, so he dopes. What has he got to lose. If he is caught he is out and was not going to win anyway and if he is not caught perhaps he can win. In Saudi people are beheaded but still they commit offences. Women are murdered in honor killings but still people are having extramarital sex. People regularly risk Thailand prison sentences to smuggle drugs. Put this in context. Some kid drugs to go faster on a bike and we ruin his life. I believe people need second chances. It has worked for me. Also don't make the mistake of assuming your motivations for the actions of others. Perhaps Nolan's motivation was not the money but the wish to not disappoint the people that had put work in to him and supported him and so he made a stupid decision and took a risk. He ended up disappointing them even more fundamentally but that is another story. To assume a motivation of monetary gain, and then basing a criminal case of fraud on this untested motivation is reaching just a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASTANA Posted February 10, 2010 Share Have to agree with Eldron. The current penalty is way to lenient. This is' date=' afterall, a career. When one is caught cheating in the work environment it's tickets and burger flippin time. Astana, if you give someone two chances before giving them a life time ban, it shows weakness. If someone has cheated twice, get lost and do not come back. [/quote'] I get you. Step out off line and I will massacre you! I like that move, but this is sport - pro sport yes - but its still sport and these guys are professional so they know that a few years ban is really bad. UCI , WADA they hand you the ban and your out of cycling for good. In the work environment you can get caught cheating and you will be fired from the company your at and might even go to jail - but your not BANNED from you career choice you made - just find another company and maby they will give you a chance. There is no governing body that will deny you from working for another company in the same trade. In cycling - banning someone for life stops his career right there. Giving him a long ban 4-6 years first timer will at leat give him the change to improve and rehabilitate to be a better human and sportsman, and still give him te opportunity to work in his field / area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted February 10, 2010 Share Eldron makes a good point when he says that by "banning" a rider you have only prevented him from participating in ONE avenue of making money or ONE possible income stream. In many professions failure to abid by the rules of the profession are even more dire. In the case of Advocate Barbie and Dirkie, their diversification into the Porn and armed robbery industry have resulted in them being debarred, arrested ext. Hell, if a guy SIGNS into an agreement, shows support for the lifestyle choices ext, and then is caught breaking the most serious and most policed of the rules, how can he then continue to gain financial advantage from that lifestyle? On a very crude point, who would send their kids to a school where there is a teacher with an assualt conviction? who would allow his wife to go to a gyni with a malpractice suit outstanding? who would trust a politician who has shown dishonesty in the past (don't answer that one please) The same for a professional cyclist. How can we trust a cyclist who has totally disregarded the code of conduct for cycling? (it is his job to know the code of conduct.) But again it is not the end of the world for him, all he has to do is follow the path of previously famous sportsmen in South Africa, write a book, release a song, start a church, start a newspaper or magazine, star in a home porn movie, open a coffee shop, apologise again......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASTANA Posted February 10, 2010 Share But they only admit after being caught!! Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs... "I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins" Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all. others don't bother. 2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate , show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat. One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li Mu Bai Posted February 10, 2010 Share My 2 cents worth:-If the mandatory sentence was a lifetime ban - a lot that still use will think twice........As the saying goes 'if you can't do the time' date=' don't do the crime!'[/quote'] Easy to say just BAN then all for LIFE... just think there should be a less harsh way to start off with? NO! you miss the point of anti doping completely. If you want to get rid of doping in sport make the consequences DIRE! otherwise there will still be too many chancers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Zone Posted February 10, 2010 Share Astana, you are right banning stops his career. If I am an accountant (that is my profession as Nolan's profession in cycling), I assist a client is perpetuating a fraud and take a backhander and get caught. My career is over. Simply barred from the profession, never practice again. Why should it be different for a pro cyclist. He took drugs for financial gain. I assisted fraud for financial gain, where is the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASTANA Posted February 10, 2010 Share Life time ban wont stop it. Think of someone who is not quite good enough to win' date=' there but not quite, so he dopes. What has he got to lose. If he is caught he is out and was not going to win anyway and if he is not caught perhaps he can win. In Saudi people are beheaded but still they commit offences. Women are murdered in honor killings but still people are having extramarital sex. People regularly risk Thailand prison sentences to smuggle drugs. Put this in context. Some kid drugs to go faster on a bike and we ruin his life. I believe people need second chances. It has worked for me. Also don't make the mistake of assuming your motivations for the actions of others. Perhaps Nolan's motivation was not the money but the wish to not disappoint the people that had put work in to him and supported him and so he made a stupid decision and took a risk. He ended up disappointing them even more fundamentally but that is another story. To assume a motivation of monetary gain, and then basing a criminal case of fraud on this untested motivation is reaching just a little. [/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyr249 Posted February 10, 2010 Share My 2 cents worth:- If the mandatory sentence was a lifetime ban - a lot that still use will think twice........As the saying goes 'if you can't do the time' date=' don't do the crime!'[/quote']True. But you got to allow for some leniency towards people who admit the crime and through circumstances ended up doing the wrong thing.Like everything out there - everyone can make a mistake at anytime in their life - one has to grant someone the opportunity to show he is better than that and be a better person.if I doped and had to serve a ban - I would never return to competition - its just humiliating and its impossible to repair all the damage.To have to option to return will just be good for rehabilitation. especially young riders who don't really understand the influence of their actions. 4yr's (1st time) , 6yr's (2nd time - may never work in a competitive cycling team or manage one) , 3rd (LIFE - nothing to do with cycling ever again)harsh enough ?Easy to say just BAN then all for LIFE... just think there should be a less harsh way to start off with?Increase the min sentence. Sportsman only have X amount of time to preform - taking away a few years is bad enough - no need to ban them for life.In everyday life - fraud in business should be punished more because one can work a lot more years than you would be a competitive pro athlete, so there are other areas where you can focus your time and recover from your mistake - still not easy but doable - some company might give you a shot after you served your time. Yes, but if you are convicted of fraud and a few other offences then it is ticket. You can't hold directorships etc. No such thing as banning from directorships for 2 years or so. You can't hold positions of trust anymore. 1 chance and if you muck that up then it is your bad luck! Why not in cycling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyr249 Posted February 10, 2010 Share But they only admit after being caught!!Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs... "I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins" Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all.others don't bother.2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate ' date=' show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat.One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair[/quote'] And deny the good results to a rider who is clean but can't achieve them because he is beaten by a "remorseful" doper? If you are a doper you are a doper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen62 Posted February 10, 2010 Share But they only admit after being caught!!"I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins" And i thought the pills the druglord asked me to take on the plane were smarties!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASTANA Posted February 10, 2010 Share Astana' date=' you are right banning stops his career. If I am an accountant (that is my profession as Nolan's profession in cycling), I assist a client is perpetuating a fraud and take a backhander and get caught. My career is over. Simply barred from the profession, never practice again. Why should it be different for a pro cyclist. He took drugs for financial gain. I assisted fraud for financial gain, where is the difference.[/quote'] Its a tough one. bu you get the idea of 2nd chances ? Life ban is hard man. Even 4 years is alot in a pro athletes life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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