Why am I breaking chains?

[RobMobius]

Ewep, if you saw my legs, you would fall over laughing. Its a mystery how they even manage to carry me around each day...! Toothpicks is being generous....

 

I called Shimano (thanks for the advice) and they are being awesome in trying to help solve the problem. Thanks Jade.

 

[ewep]

 

Ewep' date=' if you saw my legs, you would fall over laughing. Its a mystery how they even manage to carry me around each day...! Toothpicks is being generous....

 

I called Shimano (thanks for the advice) and they are being awesome in trying to help solve the problem. Thanks Jade.

 

[/quote']

 

Eish, I take it you're NOT calling me FAT

 

[Johan Bornman]

We used to break chains on our tandem due to variuos factors.

 

We had a kempekkernoglia groupset on that was just not capable of handling the stresses and strains of tandem riding. This was also aggravated by the fact that our gearchanges was not well coordinated. One or both of us did not power down during changes.

 

When I changed to a Tiagra groupset the whole issue improved. I still broke chains but this changed totally when we installed a long cage XT derraileur on the back and a 105 dearraileur on the front. Since them we have also become a more competent tandem team.

 

The whole minsdset also changed when Martin told me to take it more casual and relax' date=' and also plan ahead when to make our gearchange. Rather shift on the downhills and spin untill we need the power instead of trying to shift whilst going up a hill and under power.

 

Correct setting of the derraileurs and and control cables and a clean and lubricated chain is also a must. Since we changed from White Lightning (a hard wax based lubricant) to Squirt things are 100% better. Squirt given a more relaxed and loose well lubricated chain, especially during cold conditions.

 

Correct fixing of the chain is also a must and I will recommed an SRAM link to break the chain if you clean often. They work well with Shimano chains. I do not break the chain anymore bit wash the chain with a BBB clamshell type chain washer. I wash the chain regularly using common Sunlight Liquid in the washer.

 

On the MTB tandem we used one chain ..... it never broke and I retired it after 3500km on the tandem...... quite exceptional for an Tandem working under wet and grimy conditions. We were in Mozambique during that time.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Greetings Petoors

 

The type of groupset you use doesn't affect broken chains at all. I(*t is purely a function of chain strength (related to chain thickness and therefore number of gears) and technique. The fact that a groupset may be flimsy will show on wear and tear on bearings and pivots but not on chain breakages.

 

I think that by the time you moved to Tiagra your technique was more polished.

 

Putting a long-cage RD on the bike also has no effect. It merely affects the overall jump in gear size you can fit on the bike. At the top of the drivetrain cycle where the chain is under leg tension, the RD spring has no effect on tension and therefore on shift. Remember, we are talking chains braking from shifting, which happens 10-to12 position on the rear sprocket.

 

Lubrication has absolutely nothing to do with shifting at all. Unless a chain is very, very dirty or very, very worn, its lateral flexibility does not affect shifting. I agree that poor RD setting can affect breakages, but then simply because you'll be tempted to shift under power. It is an indirect cause.

 

In summary, it is purely a shifting problem.

 

 

 

 

[Hendrik Petoors]

JB I WILL never admit that I ..... the great and infallible Hendrik Petoors used bad technique!!!!!!!!!!

[Johan Bornman]

JB I WILL never admit that I ..... the great and infallible Hendrik Petoors used bad technique!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hendrink of course you're perfect. It's that blerrie stoker that shifts so poorly.

 

Johan- I used to be conceited but now I'm perfect - Bornman

[Hendrik Petoors]

Nope..... the stoker always sits and wave at people, chat to other cyclists, does her nails, look at nature flitting by and comment on bad gear changes. I never complain because the cardinal rule when tandemming is that  .......THE STOKER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!!!!

[Johan Bornman]

Nope..... the stoker always sits and wave at people' date=' chat to other cyclists, does her nails, look at nature flitting by and comment on bad gear changes. I never complain because the cardinal rule when tandemming is that  .......THE STOKER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!!!![/quote']

 

I agree, and my captain knows that.

[casspir]

Die hele kempekkernoglia/sh!tmano issue van HP/BigH is uiteindelik tot op die been oopgevlek!

 

Soos Johan Bornman dit so akkuraat opsom:  "In summary, it is purely a shifting problem."

 

Groete,

 

casspir

casspir2007-08-10 07:46:30

[Hendrik Petoors]

We used to break chains on our tandem due to variuos factors.

 

We had a kempekkernoglia groupset on that was just not capable of handling the stresses and strains of tandem riding. This was also aggravated by the fact that our gearchanges was not well coordinated. One or both of us did not power down during changes.

 

When I changed to a Tiagra groupset the whole issue improved. I still broke chains but this changed totally when we installed a long cage XT derraileur on the back and a 105 dearraileur on the front. Since them we have also become a more competent tandem team.

 

The whole minsdset also changed when Martin told me to take it more casual and relax' date=' and also plan ahead when to make our gearchange. Rather shift on the downhills and spin untill we need the power instead of trying to shift whilst going up a hill and under power.

 

Correct setting of the derraileurs and and control cables and a clean and lubricated chain is also a must. Since we changed from White Lightning (a hard wax based lubricant) to Squirt things are 100% better. Squirt given a more relaxed and loose well lubricated chain, especially during cold conditions.

 

Correct fixing of the chain is also a must and I will recommed an SRAM link to break the chain if you clean often. They work well with Shimano chains. I do not break the chain anymore bit wash the chain with a BBB clamshell type chain washer. I wash the chain regularly using common Sunlight Liquid in the washer.

 

On the MTB tandem we used one chain ..... it never broke and I retired it after 3500km on the tandem...... quite exceptional for an Tandem working under wet and grimy conditions. We were in Mozambique during that time.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Greetings Petoors

 

The type of groupset you use doesn't affect broken chains at all. I(*t is purely a function of chain strength (related to chain thickness and therefore number of gears) and technique. The fact that a groupset may be flimsy will show on wear and tear on bearings and pivots but not on chain breakages.

 

I think that by the time you moved to Tiagra your technique was more polished.

 

Putting a long-cage RD on the bike also has no effect. It merely affects the overall jump in gear size you can fit on the bike. At the top of the drivetrain cycle where the chain is under leg tension, the RD spring has no effect on tension and therefore on shift. Remember, we are talking chains braking from shifting, which happens 10-to12 position on the rear sprocket.

 

Lubrication has absolutely nothing to do with shifting at all. Unless a chain is very, very dirty or very, very worn, its lateral flexibility does not affect shifting. I agree that poor RD setting can affect breakages, but then simply because you'll be tempted to shift under power. It is an indirect cause.

 

In summary, it is purely a shifting problem.

 

 

 

 

 

JB is just nicer than me but he refers to "flimsy" in his posting above....... that, my Casspir my dear young boy, is kempekkenoglia he is talking about. I had two cases where the derraileur collapsed and thrust the remnants into my spokes and destroyed everything including my chain. that was bent beyond recognition.

 

When I changed to Shimano it never happened again. I did bend a chain during the Argus of 2004 due to my own stupidity but I have never broken a chain since. I do not really care what anybody says or think but since using proper components my tandem riding is way better than it was before. I do agree however that we have become much more competent tandem riders.

 

Casspir...... what tandem experience do you have to talk about .........mmmmm??????? or are you one of those weirdos on a half a bike that uses kempekkernoglia???????

[casspir]

Hennerik,

Ek het nie van tandem ervaring gepraat nie. 

 

"or are you one of those weirdos on a half a bike that uses kempekkernoglia???????"  Ja.

 

Ons verskil ook nie veel in jare nie. 

 

Om goed te breek is nie moeilik nie.  In oorle oom PW se firma het ons ges? 'n jong luitenant is so sterk hy kan sy vinger in sy eie g*t afbreek.  

 

Groetnis

 

casspir 

 

[Hendrik Petoors]

Oukay dit raak nou vir my duidelik, jy het ook soos die res 'n wurrem in jou dinges om te bewys jy het NIE 'n fout gemaak toe jy die sagte goedjies gekoop het. Jy probeer jou fout afmaak as ander se stoepiditiy. EK se ten minste en HET bewys dat die goed nie wil of kan werk op 'n tandem nie. Gaan soek maar die hele wereld se tandem websites deur en kyk hoeveel stock tandems word met kempekker verkoop. (teee heee DIT behoort jou darrem vir 'n hele ruk besig te hou!!!!!) Nie veel nie, want vervaardigers tolerate maar net die weirdos deur dit op halwe fietse te sit. Hendrik Petoors2007-08-10 09:04:07

[Spinnekop]

Fight.....Fight.......

 

Where's my popcorn??????

[Johan Bornman]

Fight.....Fight.......

 

Where's my popcorn??????

 

Why not join us? Bring your mouthguard.

 

 

[RobMobius]

Ok, this thread got interesting and went off on a tangent (tandem?).

 

To bring it back on track, can I get your help tracking down by bike's problem. I have changed the chain and one ride later its still in one piece. but I have a perennial shifting problem that may or may not be related to the chain issue.

 

A reminder - its a MTB with full XT (very new) except for Deore shifters which are old (maybe worn?) I cannot (nor can my LBS) set my gears correctly. I shift down no problem to the 5th ring (from smallest). Then I have to double shift to get to the 4th smallest. Problem is less prevelant shifting to easier gears. Problem only exists between 4 and 5th smallest rings.

 

As mentioned chain is brand new and lubed. DR is new and str8. New cables and housing. New and correct (unloaded shifting technique). The problem exists on the bike stand too. It seems as if the DR is not moving sufficiently to jump that gear. The cluster has been checked and I am told its fine. Maybe my shifter is not pulling enough cable. But if its worn surely it would give me hassles in all gears not just this one change? All other changes are fine.

 

This problem is driving me nuts and no one has a plausible theory or explanation. I am just told, get a new this or that.

 

Help?

 

Thanks Hubbers

 

[Dibles]

I'm not sure if this will solve your problem but I had exactly the same issue in the past and it was caused by a kink in the relatively new gear cable.

 

It's worth looking to see if this is the case as it won't cost much at all. I unfortunately can't remember the explanation as to why it only affected certain gears.

[WesselvdWalt]

Which gears were you in when it broke? Front & rear? What terrain were you on? eg. Smooth uphill, rocky uphill, short steep power climb etc. or just flat technical terrain etc.

 

Perhaps your gear selection is what's at fault here, there is alot more strain on the chain in various gear combinations, it's just a bad habbit then.. and could be unlearnt, possibly a combination of the two, where the chain was not 100% correctly *broken* and spliced and also removing the stiffness from the spliced link...

 

This should indicate if you're properly fixing the shimano chain.

Most of the vetran Mountain bikers  use the SRAM chains, It's only ever happened to me with a shimano chain years ago, but noting the *new* improved system for inserting the shimano chains it's become a rareity...

 

The sram system is soo much easier and reliable.. The only incident i've heard was a guy that managed to *unhook* his power link, by pedaling backwards and having chain suck... and i've been riding for 15yrs. Take a powerlink or two with you as a spare.