Difference between types of brake pads?

[StokedAboutSpokes]

Hi There

 

What is the difference between

 

Ceramic disc brake pads

 

Sintered pads

 

Organic pads

 

Metallic pads

 

I want to know the difference in preformance and durability?

[StokedAboutSpokes]

also what would you recommend???

[Johan Bornman]

Metallic and sintered pads are one and the same thing. They are made from metal shavings crushed together under high pressure at temperatures just below their melting points. If you look at the pads you can actually see the bits and pieces.

 

They are toughter than organic pads. Organic pads are made from resin, which are also known as Resin pads. The resin is not organic as in tree gum, but made by organo-chemistry concoctions.

 

I have no idea what ceramic disc brake pads are. They do make ceramic brake pads for rim brakes but these are not actually made from old pieces of Corningware, but intended for rims with ceramic coatings on their brake surfaces. They are made from a high melting point rubber and have about the same braking ability as an ice skate on ice - in the forward direction.

 

Sintered pads are tougher on discs than resin pads and can only be used on some discs, so it is not a matter of recommendation, but compatibility.

[Capricorn]

what JB said. Extra to that, organic's give better bite than sintered under dry conditions. but tend to slip when wet and wear out pretty fast under wet muddy conditions. Metal sintereds offer similar bite under almost all conditions. Apparently, brake modulation is better with organics than with sintered metal pads, as some riders describe the sintered pads as 'bitey'.

Cos of the better braking force, the organics tend to wear faster.

I personally have only ever used sintered metal pads on Elixir CRs.

[StokedAboutSpokes]

So i'm guessing that the sintered pads last longer... But I heard they can make quite a noise... it that true?

[Capricorn]

yes the metal sintered pads squeal when wet (but eventually goes away as the heat from pad and disc get rid of the moisture), and also when dry, but in dusty conditions (my experiences). But other than that, no squeal unless the pads are rubbing up on the pistons.

[Cassie]

JB, The ceramic pads also jsut have this compound added tot he mix...

apparently it is excellent in dissipating heat away from the pad...if my memory serves correctly (Ireda it on one of the brake pad websites).

 

They are hence more expensive than the rest of the bunch...

[HairyLegs]

Can you use sintered pads with "Resin Only" discs and vice versa?

[splat]

I see that Avid now has metal organic.

Best of both worlds?

[Johan Bornman]

JB, The ceramic pads also jsut have this compound added tot he mix...

apparently it is excellent in dissipating heat away from the pad...if my memory serves correctly (Ireda it on one of the brake pad websites).

 

They are hence more expensive than the rest of the bunch...

 

Hmmmm...

 

Most ceramics are very poor conductors of heat and in any mix will almost certainly not contribute to heat dissipation.

 

Heat generation in friction interfaces is not well understood by the marketing people, it seems. Heat is generated in the softer of the two surfaces. In the case of bicycle (and most other) brakes it is the pad. Usually the pad is a poor conductor and heat remains at the friction interface, where it is transferred through contact, to the disc or rim. Here it is dissipated by wind and transfer into the hub and spokes.

 

I don't see where ceramic plays a role in this heat transfer but perhaps I don't know enough about ceramics.

[Cassie]

Hmmmm...

 

Most ceramics are very poor conductors of heat and in any mix will almost certainly not contribute to heat dissipation.

 

Heat generation in friction interfaces is not well understood by the marketing people, it seems. Heat is generated in the softer of the two surfaces. In the case of bicycle (and most other) brakes it is the pad. Usually the pad is a poor conductor and heat remains at the friction interface, where it is transferred through contact, to the disc or rim. Here it is dissipated by wind and transfer into the hub and spokes.

 

I don't see where ceramic plays a role in this heat transfer but perhaps I don't know enough about ceramics.

OR perhaps i did not read the marketing mumbo jumbo correctly??

All i gathered was that it was more effective in heat dissipation...

perhaps it is more effective head shielding??

But from waht then? The ceramic is in the pad ittself and not the pad housing etc.

[Capricorn]

JB: interesting statement there suggesting heat is only generated in one or the other surface. That defies Newton 3 wrt the frictional forces at play. Also the pad is hardly that bad a conductor of heat, as the caliper gets hot enough to have an effect on the brake fluid behind the piston.. brake fade...only source of heat is the whole pad, not just the surface of it. The disc is just more effective at dissipating the heat generated by the friction under braking by windage over the structure of the disc itself, which you've alluded to.

Cassie, you may just be right in guessing that it's probably to better insulate the rest of the caliper from the ill effects of heating (whole pad as heat source). IIRC I think Shimano has gone so far on it's latest XT or XTR brakes to add heatsinks to the pad/caliper. lemme find it..

 

Bingo. Cassie get's first prize

http://lp1.pinkbike.com/p4pb5447213/p4pb5447213.jpg

 

Shimano's new XTR caliper is used on both the Trail and Race systems and hides two full ceramic pistons. The two black objects atop the caliper act as cooling fins that dissipate heat via their increased surface are. They are actually attached to the Ice Tech pads, not the caliper itself. An aluminum banjo bolt is used to attach the hose to the caliper.

[Capricorn]

I see that Avid now has metal organic.

Best of both worlds?

 

was gonna mention the hybrid pad till I spotted your post. It's like 3C maxxis tyres: hard bottom layer with progressively softer compounds on the side knobs and the softest on the middle knobs (or vice verse> cant remember which goes where).

So similarly, they've added some organic compounds to the center of the pads:

SOS Pads - Sintered Organic Sintered

 

Sintered doesn't perform as well as Organic in the cold, and by its very nature (more than 60%) metal) it generates and conducts a great deal of heat to the brake fluid.

 

This heat build up can cause expansion of the brake fluid leading to brake drag issues (known as pump-up). In extreme cases, the fluid can vaporise, resulting in a total loss of brakes.

 

This is where all those hours of R&D really paid off, as it enabled us to understand that the best solution would be a brake pad made up of more than one compound; SOS. The low metallic Organic compoun is located in the middle of the pad, resulting in less heat being transferred to the brake piston. In fact, the heat transfer rate is 3x less than a fully sintered pad, but yet its braking performance is on a par.

 

Whats more, the cold temperature performance is that of an organic pad. Hence SOS is truly the universal high performance pad that excels in all environment for all riding styles.

[Capricorn]

Can you use sintered pads with "Resin Only" discs and vice versa?

 

dont know about discs that are resin specific (sounds a bit too restrictive IMHO), but some riders use both sintered and organic pads in the same caliper: one pad sintered, the other pad organic. Sort of DIY "best of both world's" approach.

[Oli G]

The Sintered Pads cause the most wear on your rotor being that they are very hard and rough. Sintered are also the heaviest of the three which can fractionally reduce the reaction time of your brakes as well as obviously adding weight. Organic are made from softer materials than the other two and therefore wear the fastest. Ceramic Brakes are made from ceramic fiber which is very good at dissipating heat. Ceramic brakes usually include some of the metal fibers used in the sintered pads so that their braking power is increased. If you want short range stopping power use sintered although it will heat up very quickly and lose a lot of stopping power they will be too hot to retain their stopping power after 100 meters. If you have to do a lot of braking you should use ceramic as it will dissipate more heat than using sintered and therefore your stopping power will be better when doing a lot of braking.

Ceramics are the most expensive therefore they must be the best.....

[Capricorn]

oli G: i'm tempted to ask if you've got stock of them ceramics pads for Elixir CRs