Cycling SA, what the flip were you thinking???

[Caerus]

Willie Engelbrecht - Bronze at commonwealth games road race

JP van Zyl - Kerin medalist

David George - 3rd world U23 TT champs

James Perry - 3rd world U23 TT champs

 

Unfortunately this was all back in the 90ies and just out of isolation.

 

These guys new how to train and trained in RSA to race at world level! David George know how to train and choses his race to race in and train to that level. What I am saying is not all riders are the same - so for some maybe been based in Europe is the answer, but for other been trained correctly at home has also worked as well if not better!

 

 

This is what I just cant get my head around. I just been watching the Womans World champs in OZ on TV, the conditons seemed no differant to South Afican roads for training on. Ive been to Geelond and to Adelaide where they both have ionternationaol events, trust me the roads are no differant ion Adelaide either. Am I missing something completely here?

[Christie]

I think the strategy Groot Lem has is a good one.

 

To send riders to worlds based on local results would be a total waste of money & time. They have thought it through, and are going about it in the right way.

 

The next step would be to have races in SA with more challenging routes.

 

We need races with serious climbs. Small 50-60kg riders dissapear after junior level - no use for them in the local elite bunch.

 

How about some hilltop finishes, that with substantial prize money? Something in Lesotho, or Magoeba's kloof, with perhaps R30k for 1st, 10k 2nd, 3k 3d, running down to 10th. It will also help if races like Jock & Graskop could be grown. Needs money, I guess.

 

The other big focus should be the racing calendar from January to March. It would be great if we have proper races in these months, like Tour of SA. Races with mountains can offer something to Euro GC contenders that TDU & Quatar can't. The Euro pros will come here to do them as training. It will also provide exposure to our local guys - talented riders may draw the attention of Euro managers. Money spent on this will go further than sending a squad of elite & U23's to worlds that end up with DNF behind their names.

[Caerus]

I think the strategy Groot Lem has is a good one.

 

To send riders to worlds based on local results would be a total waste of money & time. They have thought it through, and are going about it in the right way.

 

The next step would be to have races in SA with more challenging routes.

 

We need races with serious climbs. Small 50-60kg riders dissapear after junior level - no use for them in the local elite bunch.

 

How about some hilltop finishes, that with substantial prize money? Something in Lesotho, or Magoeba's kloof, with perhaps R30k for 1st, 10k 2nd, 3k 3d, running down to 10th. It will also help if races like Jock & Graskop could be grown. Needs money, I guess.

 

The other big focus should be the racing calendar from January to March. It would be great if we have proper races in these months, like Tour of SA. Races with mountains can offer something to Euro GC contenders that TDU & Quatar can't. The Euro pros will come here to do them as training. It will also provide exposure to our local guys - talented riders may draw the attention of Euro managers. Money spent on this will go further than sending & squad of elite & U23's to worlds that end up with DNF behind their names.

 

 

One thing you do also notice, which I can see as an issue here locally is the actual quality of the road surface too, or is this not a real issue?

[Bikalot]

love the resident hub experts, know everything and expect things to happen overnight

[Caerus]

love the resident hub experts, know everything and expect things to happen overnight

 

Seems to be problem thats been going on for a very very long time, maybe those "resident hub experts, know it all, expect things to happen overnight" have some ideas that could do with some exploring, just putting it out there thats all

[Wannabe]

I'm not the most clued up guy on racing and tactics (I just wheelsuck as far as possible and then try and outsprint for position 1854. lol )But I know one or two Pro cyclist (used to ride with one of the current MTN ladies, one of their top riders) and she told me that the level of racing between Europe and here is like me trying to compete with the youngsters in the Elite group. In other words, its HUGE. She said it basicaly comes down to the intensity of the races, the tactics, the DISTANCES RACED, and the frequency of the races. Our ladies here have a tea party on the road for 90km, and use "tactics" to outsmart the oposition in the last couple of km, and then sprint for 200m, where the fastest one invariably wins. Over there the racing is fast, tactics are shrewd, the distances are longer, AND THE BUNCHES MUCH BIGGER.

I'm sure the same applies to the men.

We need concentrate to get our local races based on the distances raced in Europe (we race for just over 100km here, there they race for over 200km). Then identify the riders with talent and potential (looking at these criteria, not the colour of their skin, if they've got the talent and potential then develope them) and send them overseas for a year or two to compete in Europe. Surely if CSA or whoever comes up with a decent plan to SASCOC, Government, whoever, money can and will be found. LOTTO money comes to mind, there is BILLIONS not used for the intended purposes.

I am sure GrootLem and kie is aware of this, and is working on a plan. All I know, its not going to be easy.

[Christie]

PS - thanks Groot Lem for joining the discussion!

[Caerus]

I'm not the most clued up guy on racing and tactics (I just wheelsuck as far as possible and then try and outsprint for position 1854. lol )But I know one or two Pro cyclist (used to ride with one of the current MTN ladies, one of their top riders) and she told me that the level of racing between Europe and here is like me trying to compete with the youngsters in the Elite group. In other words, its HUGE. She said it basicaly comes down to the intensity of the races, the tactics, the DISTANCES RACED, and the frequency of the races. Our ladies here have a tea party on the road for 90km, and use "tactics" to outsmart the oposition in the last couple of km, and then sprint for 200m, where the fastest one invariably wins. Over there the racing is fast, tactics are shrewd, the distances are longer, AND THE BUNCHES MUCH BIGGER.

I'm sure the same applies to the men.

We need concentrate to get our local races based on the distances raced in Europe (we race for just over 100km here, there they race for over 200km). Then identify the riders with talent and potential (looking at these criteria, not the colour of their skin, if they've got the talent and potential then develope them) and send them overseas for a year or two to compete in Europe. Surely if CSA or whoever comes up with a decent plan to SASCOC, Government, whoever, money can and will be found. LOTTO money comes to mind, there is BILLIONS not used for the intended purposes.

I am sure GrootLem and kie is aware of this, and is working on a plan. All I know, its not going to be easy.

 

 

Good points raised. I like the idea of the Lotto funding. Has this been looked into GrootLem?

[Icycling]

Matie - not sure who your comment was directed at - but I am about to climb on the podium at Sa track champs currently under way for a medal!

[cyclingfiend]

Willie Engelbrecht - Bronze at commonwealth games road race

JP van Zyl - Kerin medalist

David George - 3rd world U23 TT champs

James Perry - 3rd world U23 TT champs

 

Unfortunately this was all back in the 90ies and just out of isolation.

 

These guys new how to train and trained in RSA to race at world level! David George know how to train and choses his race to race in and train to that level. What I am saying is not all riders are the same - so for some maybe been based in Europe is the answer, but for other been trained correctly at home has also worked as well if not better!

B) Also DG got bronze at Malaysia Commonwealths in 2000

Perry's worlds medal was in 2001 so not so long ago.

Sorry Christie, but I think that the current selection process is seriously flawed - for example, to not include ITT specialists at the worlds is a serious ommission - that is the best opportunity we have to get medals - note how Peter Vellits beat Cancellera in the final itt of the Veulta - individuals can always surprise and of course the weather can help!

And the same ommission at the upcoming Commonwealths!

In the real world, individual cyclists do well locally, go to events like World champs/cups and then get selected by European teams. With the best will in the world, CSA can't make it the other way round! Their process is doomed to failure.

[Christie]

The problem is how to select our TT specialists? We only have one TT on the SA racing calendar. One race result does not give a clear picture of TT performance. A puncture / bit of rain could affect the results.

 

Secondly, the TT riders on the pro teams have the best of the best of everything - best dope, best equipment (like TT frames not yet in production etc) and positions optimized in a wind tunnel. I don't think we can compete with that. We do have some riders on Pro teams, like JLA @ Sky, & Hunter @ Garmin. I'm pretty sure if they had some good TT results, CSA would have used them for worlds.

 

But I agree with you that TT should not be forgotten. Tour of SA can have a prologue TT and a 40km TT as well.

 

BTW, I see Jay Thompson did the TT - came 37th - Not that far off Velits in 32nd.

[gummibear]

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

I have been very lucky and have met some very nice guys involved with cycling here in Luxembourg.

 

There Teams from under 14 through to Elites have big sponsors.They have regular training weekends for all the juniors and they regulary have competitions for juniors from Belgium,Sweden and France.

 

These kids boys and girls are in a league of there own.

 

So surely if SA wants to improve the cycling they should start with the kids.

 

What happened at SA's this morning?What a shocking performance by the SA riders in Australia.

DNF Daryl Impey (South Africa)

DNF Darren Lill (South Africa)

DNF Jay Robert Thomson (South Africa)

 

Where is Hunter?

[bigwheel29]

I am currently living in Adelaide, Australia and regularly attend races where the top pro's race. I mean Garmin Transitions riders, Cape Epic stage winners etc (stuart OGrady started out here until becoming pro). Funny thing is, they race 80-100km road races on a handicap race system. They do lots of criteriums, 45 minutes etc. And they have a LOT less races to choose from locally due to high distances etc.(the next big city is 600km way, and the following one 1100km...)

 

There are no Argus events, no PMB-Durbans etc. here, but still the amount of Euro Pro's coming out of this place is amazing. All races are club based and every weekend you have 50-100 riders battling it out. Its hard racing, and the format does not allow the Elites to take it easy because the lower handicap riders will win...

 

The reason why these riders become pro's are most likely that they are supported by the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport). Because the clubs are so involved, they inform the State sports administrators of talented youngsters, who then gets coaching etc to see if they can go the distance. Once these guys reach 20, the Aussie national teams have to leave out very good riders when they do selections, for example some of the best U23's in Europe had to watch from home.

 

I think that CSA is moving towards a system that may work. I think some of the current administrators are really doing a much better job than ever before. I think the problem is surely the lack of real involvement between clubs and provinces and the national organisation.

 

There are so many really influential people who ride and race frequently, and who are sitting on the sidelines not getting involved. These guys should use their contacts to get the ball rolling in finding support for the bodies (provinces and national). This way the people really providing benefit to cycling will stick around, and better support could be a heartbeat away. Australia won a bronze medal in Elites today, and Gold in U23, Silver in U23 TT because they have a system that works = look after the riders AND the system, and have one goal.

 

It was with a bit of sadness that I watched the Elite road race live today (the last few km's at least as I was out MTB'ing), and there were no SA riders in the final 60km at least. It takes a lot of effort, time and support for these guys to finish a 260km race with the Euro pro's. It starts with a system that have the respect from the community it serves.

[Caerus]

I am currently living in Adelaide, Australia and regularly attend races where the top pro's race. I mean Garmin Transitions riders, Cape Epic stage winners etc (stuart OGrady started out here until becoming pro). Funny thing is, they race 80-100km road races on a handicap race system. They do lots of criteriums, 45 minutes etc. And they have a LOT less races to choose from locally due to high distances etc.(the next big city is 600km way, and the following one 1100km...)

 

There are no Argus events, no PMB-Durbans etc. here, but still the amount of Euro Pro's coming out of this place is amazing. All races are club based and every weekend you have 50-100 riders battling it out. Its hard racing, and the format does not allow the Elites to take it easy because the lower handicap riders will win...

 

The reason why these riders become pro's are most likely that they are supported by the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport). Because the clubs are so involved, they inform the State sports administrators of talented youngsters, who then gets coaching etc to see if they can go the distance. Once these guys reach 20, the Aussie national teams have to leave out very good riders when they do selections, for example some of the best U23's in Europe had to watch from home.

 

I think that CSA is moving towards a system that may work. I think some of the current administrators are really doing a much better job than ever before. I think the problem is surely the lack of real involvement between clubs and provinces and the national organisation.

 

There are so many really influential people who ride and race frequently, and who are sitting on the sidelines not getting involved. These guys should use their contacts to get the ball rolling in finding support for the bodies (provinces and national). This way the people really providing benefit to cycling will stick around, and better support could be a heartbeat away. Australia won a bronze medal in Elites today, and Gold in U23, Silver in U23 TT because they have a system that works = look after the riders AND the system, and have one goal.

 

It was with a bit of sadness that I watched the Elite road race live today (the last few km's at least as I was out MTB'ing), and there were no SA riders in the final 60km at least. It takes a lot of effort, time and support for these guys to finish a 260km race with the Euro pro's. It starts with a system that have the respect from the community it serves.

 

 

Where you living in Adelaide, my wife is from Modbury North( Tea tree gully)

[TCTG]

Twats, here we were thinking its was just the government that were corupt - Still would like to know what CSA actually does for the fees we have paid for. And why should I have to pay for them to be able to ride a MTB race - I get absolutly nothing out of it.

 

Is it so the family can go overseas with these officials, who are these officials anyway. I dont even get a weekly/monthly email from them? Informing me of any developments with cycling in SA - Bollocks to them I say - I think we need to have a toyi toyi outside their offices burning our CSA cards and demanding answers;)

 

Maybe we need to suggest to them to use the money in a greater cause such as setting up a monitoring system and crime tel centre for THEFT OF BICYCLES. It is by time some of them take note that it is not veryone that has the resporces to insure their bicycle and this will be a good socially responsible initiative going forward? What are your thoughts on this?

[Caerus]

Maybe we need to suggest to them to use the money in a greater cause such as setting up a monitoring system and crime tel centre for THEFT OF BICYCLES. It is by time some of them take note that it is not veryone that has the resporces to insure their bicycle and this will be a good socially responsible initiative going forward? What are your thoughts on this?

 

 

I like it, seems like a good idea - No luck on your bike then CTG ? Still feel so bad for you