CyclingSA, what the flip were you thinking - part2

[Dennis the Menace]

Apolgies to Boet for re-using his topic heading of last week...

I didn't intend to re-register on the Hub after not being able to recover my old name etc., after their site upgrade but am now so incensed by SA's elite road mens pathetic CG results that I just got to say something...

Was holding out to see how the ITT but remained disappointed.

And I'm not blaming the riders - CSA are fully responsible for no medals because of poor team selection and no ITT specialists.

I bet that any 5 riders from current SA based elite teams - Medscheme, MTN, even EMG, would have put up a much better performance than "CSA's Choice" of what was essentially a bunch of unco-ordinated sprinters.

Shocking!!!

And there are several good ITTers in SA quite capable of 50kph avarage over that Delhi circuit and hence a silver medal at least! Only takes a scan through National champs to see who these are, (wouldn't expect them to beat Miller but no problem with the rest!). Disgracefull omission.

CSA needs to engage a (ex) professional for its elite mens selector and manager even if it means paying a retainer - someone who has done the hard yards in Europe and knows all about team structures and what it takes to be a winner. (a la Chris Boardman, as someone else mentioned in part1).

Austen must stick to his Juniors without wasting too much money and Lemmers get a admin job.

CSA has let down cycling Internationally and South Africa as a nation, in a big way!

Not sure whose doing the MTBing if there is any - do we have a chance of some salvation there?

[dutchMan]

eeesh i see fireworks looming

[Tankman]

I have posted this question here and on CSA's facebook page and I still have had no reply.

 

Why was there only 3 male track rider from SA at the commonwealth games? Can someone please explain, did the rest not qualify/was not good enough, had to pay for themselves or did CSA just not bother? No TT team?

 

SA Track Chapms was 2 weeks ago and there was plenty to choose from

[Trubie]

they seem to be selective in what they reply to..........

maybe time to find themselves a good pr co to assist

maybe Julius M can join em!!

[DB28]

Money is a big issue... hence the track team was made up of guys that were already there, it saved money to use them. We were unlucky with bernard crashing out... real medal contender. Dean just had a shocker in his scratch final, nowhere near the pace at the business end of the race... it happens. But we gota look to 2012 now and will dean really have the pace for it? Jay and Stoff aren't track specialists, not by a long shot... they could be in time... but right now, no. Cant blame them.

 

Looking at our CWG mens road team... on paper looking at our squad, you'd say a top 10 was definitely the realistic goal... were the guys maybe tired after a long season??? but then all the other pros also had a long season. Did they just not have that nations pride that was needed for the race... i really really doubt it as i know where most of those guys hearts are! im going with, they just didn't have the form... on the other hand- rabie was our best placed in 17th... a local pro who has not raced as much as the others, who is in form seeing that he has prepared for all the local classics on now... so yeah maybe the selecting of our overseas pro's was wrong, but why then were they selected... because they the only ones who fit the "criteria" according to CSA. According to CSA our local pro's arent up to speed, tactically not ready and not skilled enough to race in the big bunches. I think Rabie did alright... in my earlier thread i asked why someone like ReinhardtJVRensburg wasn't chosen... he didn't fit the criteria. as he didnt get results at the nations cup events... Not only is he our best u23 rider in SA at the moment but he is our best rider based on current form, period! Why has he not got a nod for either WC or CWG... he didnt fit the darn criteria! im all for the vision of basing our riders overseas, it's the only real way to improve internationally. but that doesn't mean our riders back home suck... they prob just havent gotten or taken the right opportunity yet. i dont think im the only one who thinks the criteria needs an adjustment... pick the riders based on current form, not on reputation...

 

lill is an awesome rider, when there is hill in the equation. he is by no means a flatlander diesel engine that can ride on front all day for the teams sprinters. Stoff looked tired in the break... maybe his reserves were wasted riding track all week? Hunter, thomson and impey put in 2 or 3 efforts but none were decisive. That happens... but if you miss the move then shouldn't you organize the chase if you still got 5 riders left in the bunch??? and if you dont chase, why not? i would say they just didn't have the legs. all 3 of em finished and not miles of the pace, so maybe there selection would have been justified if they were riding in full support of another on form rider... but anyway, lets see wat happens next year.

 

Barry works flippen hard and doesnt get all the credit he deserves... Hlemmer has only done good for SA cycling... these guys have only really taken on CSA issues head on recently. wen you start a journey at 10 feet under ground, and you improve by 6 feet... your still 4 feet underground but you improved so give it time and you'll eventually be on top. so lets give these guys some more time... they'll get it right.

 

Anyway... im still a huge supporter of South African cycling. weather your teams up or down you stick by them... unless your team is Liverpool, then you gota jump ship! haha

[cyclingfiend]

I have to go along with Dennis - damn poor show both at worlds and now CG's and the failure can be squarely on the laps of the CSA.

If it were a rugby team we wouldn't be so tolerant, would we?

I really hoped that here was a good opportunity to put cycling on the map as far as local perception was concerned but we blew it!

And Boet, money is not an issue at the CG's the taxpayer pays for it!

Edited October 13, 2010 by cyclingfiend

[DB28]

I have to go along with Dennis - damn poor show both at worlds and now CG's and the failure can be squarely on the laps of the CSA.

If it were a rugby team we wouldn't be so tolerant, would we?

I really hoped that here was a good opportunity to put cycling on the map as far as local perception was concerned but we blew it!

And Boet, money is not an issue at the CG's the taxpayer pays for it!

If money wasn't an issue do you honestly think we would still be a 3rd world country? SASCOC also work on a ''budget'' believe it or not... :-) how else do you think every ministers mother would be able 2 afford a beamer?

[MEYER1]

DAAR WAS BAIE GROOT PROBLEME IN DIE FEEDING ZONE,KYK BIETJIE WAT HET DIE ANDER LANDE SE RYERS GEKRY EN WAT HET ONS RYERS GEKRY. DIT WAS NIE DIE RYERS SE SKULD NIE.

[Icycling]

Look is very easy to point fingers - and I do my fair share of this but ... On the track to me their was 1 outstanding rider at Commonwealth games (I have not seen all the events) a 22 year AUS who managed to lap the field 3 times in the point race etc. I was at SA track champs and yes we have the talent of that I am sure!

 

To a degree I feel Commonwealth games (maybe Olympics also) - and yes their should be no hard and fast rule - should be from SA point of view for rider who are hungry - probably the younger riders who have not been exposed to the international stage, but this is their opportunity. The riders who have a need to prove themselves!

 

Did any of the riders at this years commonwealth games need to prove themselves and if so for what? The riders on the road were all basically tired from a long hard PRO season - some probably did not even really want to be their. But would rather be resting for next years season where again at moments in time they will more than Likely do SA proud.

 

Does the CSA strategy suck - I am not sure. For sure the riders have done SA proud at other event - probably the problem is the depth to which CSA is looking and that is even at U23 level. We cant just have less than 10 riders at world class level - we need like 20. Some may go for Europe for 3 to 6 month stints while others may stay at home and do some serious TT training for once off event like worlds and Commonwealth games. I use the TT as an example as it is an event which you can train for on home turf to international level - and even the likes of David George and James Perry have proven that!!

 

Possibly the other problem is how this country best cyclist have all been taken by JHB based cycling teams - progressively reducing the standards on the other provinces - it their an answer to this maybe and that would be if you U23 and you sign with a top local team you not legible to rep RSA in the U23 cat sort of like at world's level Pro's cannot race U23 races - I know I will get a lot of flake for even suggesting this and then how to determine which teams are really the local pro teams! This is not a dig at the local pro teams they do a lot for RSA cycling and RSA cycling needs them too!

 

So I have not answered any off the questions but maybe some of the ideas may be worth looking at!

[domenic]

 

To a degree I feel Commonwealth games (maybe Olympics also) - and yes their should be no hard and fast rule - should be from SA point of view for rider who are hungry - probably the younger riders who have not been exposed to the international stage, but this is their opportunity. The riders who have a need to prove themselves!

 

Did any of the riders at this years commonwealth games need to prove themselves and if so for what? The riders on the road were all basically tired from a long hard PRO season - some probably did not even really want to be their. But would rather be resting for next years season where again at moments in time they will more than Likely do SA proud.

 

 

I agree, and would change the emphasis from road to track. We continually hear that track is the best development route for road, but we completely ignore this. We insist on sending a road team made up riders who have some pro team experience, but ignore that these riders have other priorities and programs.

IMHO we should invest in development and send a team made up of our best track prospects. We should concentrate on the track timed events, because these depend more on talent and fitness and strength than experience. Send our best 1000m TT, team sprint and team pursuit prospects. And then, out of their numbers, let the best take part in the other track events, such as the match sprint, keirin, individual pursuit, points race and scratch race, and even further, in the road TT and road race.

If you look at the Australian and New Zealand Commonwealth teams, and even the home nations' teams, you will see that the majority of their teams were made up exactly like that.

The best thing that CSA did was sending Bernard Esterhuisen, and that is an investment that will surely bring benefit. We could also have benefitted from sending other hungry, talented track riders, and exposing them to quality road racing. We certainly did not benefit from sending experienced road riders, not at their peaks, and using them on the track.

[gummibear]

It's all politics...be it sport or in Government!!!!

[Wyatt Earp]

If I may I would like to add a slightly different spin.

I see a problem with individuals, South African sports people as individuals that is.

We tend to think we live in S.A. and as a result of that we simply can not/ will never be able to perform at a level that an athlete from the USA/ AUS or other countries can perform at.

Most athletes compete here at home, where they become heroes, this idol-ism then comes with a downside which attaches itself to said athletes as a sickness, it's called a bloated ego.

 

They start thinking they are invincible , that they are the greatest athletes ever to walk the face of the earth, in their own minds they have conquered the world.

When they get on the world stage such as WC./CW. or Olympics they simply fold, they completely cave in because mentally they can't deal with the fact that their names are not in the headlines as race favorites such as the Cancellara's and Phelps of the world.

 

They suddenly realise that they are simply a mere blimp on the world map of sports and the suddenly they get hit with the biggest terminal illness of all, the one disease an athlete needs the least and that is a lack of Big Match Temperament.

 

They suddenly pack it all in , thinking they can't compete at that level and before you know it they are just sitting there going along for the ride and everyone else has paid for it.

 

Look at the Kenyan's performance in the marathon, how is that for a poorer country where they don't see limits, just the sky.

They come out with the tenacity of a meerkat and deliver the results.

 

So regardless of CSA, the taxpayer or whoever we want to blame, the pre-madonna's have to get over themselves before they can take on the World Stage.

 

Somehow the 95 World Cup springs to mind, the Bokke had BMT. and WANTED to prove to the world that regardless of where we originate from, we can all perform at the same level and then may the best man on the day win.

[FowlStArt]

Why was there only 3 male track rider from SA at the commonwealth games? Can someone please explain, did the rest not qualify/was not good enough, had to pay for themselves or did CSA just not bother? No TT team?

 

SA Track Chapms was 2 weeks ago and there was plenty to choose from

 

Jay and Stof are not track cyclists they were not even supposed to be on the track at the games but were thrown in the deepend. There are planty talented track specialists, TT specialists and additional road race specialists in this country that would have done alot better but sending 3-5 guys for everything was the cheapest option.

 

Were was Mike Thomson (SA champ on the track for 2 disaplines and bronze medalist) he should have been option number 1 for the track.

[gummibear]

 

Look at the Kenyan's performance in the marathon, how is that for a poorer country where they don't see limits, just the sky.

They come out with the tenacity of a meerkat and deliver the results.

 

 

I was in Kenya at the time of the trials for the Marathon for the Athens 2004.They had over 50 men go under 2H 25minutes and 200 under 2h40 minutes.

The men there just run and hope that they will be noticed.It's the only way to make money for them and they see it as a way out of poverty.Some of them run 40km a day...barefoot.

 

Nike has a clinic there now for youngsters and i guess that the first sun 2 hour marathon will come out of one of them.

 

SA needs to send some of there riders from under 16 up to Europe to race here against some of these kids.

 

We had a Mtb race the weekend and there were more juniors than the rest of the field.

[Wyatt Earp]

I was in Kenya at the time of the trials for the Marathon for the Athens 2004.They had over 50 men go under 2H 25minutes and 200 under 2h40 minutes.

The men there just run and hope that they will be noticed.It's the only way to make money for them and they see it as a way out of poverty.Some of them run 40km a day...barefoot.

 

Nike has a clinic there now for youngsters and i guess that the first sun 2 hour marathon will come out of one of them.

 

SA needs to send some of there riders from under 16 up to Europe to race here against some of these kids.

 

We had a Mtb race the weekend and there were more juniors than the rest of the field.

My point exactly, the guys have it too easy here, get elevated to celebrity status and then sit back and chill.

Fowlstart mentions the "cheapest option" this is also very true, the thinking is that we send a few peeps over just so that we can show that S.A. is represented, regardless of their performance.

I understand and know that not everyone can be a winner, but at least develop a bloomin hunger for it, for goodness sake.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Look at the Kenyan's performance in the marathon, how is that for a poorer country where they don't see limits, just the sky.

They come out with the tenacity of a meerkat and deliver the results.

 

 

Yeah, look I dont know anything about local cycling at all, hardly even watch it, but I have followed Marathon events and especially the Kenyan's and Ethiopian runners for decades.

 

Look, genetically they are built for running, of that there is no doubt, but many of these guys dont even get professional training until they win or compete well in an event on the international platform, they just cant afford it, so they make do with local amateur coaching at schools and clubs, also forget special diets and high class training equipment like HR moniters and ultra light weight shoes, that all comes much later, they start with nothing but a desire and will to win.......which they never ever lose, because that would mean returnnig to a life of poverty in the mountains.

 

Perhaps its just too easy for the majority of our athletes, of all demominations.

 

They get the best training, the best equipment, the best diet's and money in their pockets, perhaps they have never needed to give something up, so they have not really learnt to cultivate that will to win against all odds?.