Tying & Soldering Spokes

[EigerSA]

I been building my own wheels for a little while now and thanks to far too many hours in front of the google machine, I've discovered that "tied and soldered" spokes is the ultimate in wheel building. My question is, how come if it's so good no one seems to do it today? Is it like a dying art form or something? Also, is it really that beneficial to the rider and longevity of the wheel? I'm really keen to find out more and maybe even try it, anyone else got/seen/heard of this?

[Johan Bornman]

No-one does it anymore because it doesn't do anything.

 

It is an anachronism from the old days of high-wheelers where a long broken spoke flapping around caused havoc with small children, dogs and legs.

 

Nowadays, a broken spoke is a non-event and we dont have to restrain the broken spoke. Usually, the rider only notices once the brakes start to touch.

 

It is not the ultimate in wheelbuilding and certainly not an art. Anyone with a soldering iron, some copper wire and stainless steel flux can do it.

[EigerSA]

So it adds no strength to the wheel or anything like that?

[Johan Bornman]

So it adds no strength to the wheel or anything like that?

 

Nope, only makes them ugly.

[EigerSA]

Asked and answered, thank you

[eggsovereasywithteandtoast]

I have read that soldering adds stiffness to the wheel and support to the hub; particularly beneficial to the discerning and experienced track rider.

[SwissVan]

Other than it's probably not necessary... unless your spokes fail on a regular basis (which probably means you need to revise your wheel / hub / spoke choice).

 

I’d guess the inconvenience factor and extra weight is enough to scare most people off.

[SwissVan]

I have read that soldering adds stiffness to the wheel and support to the hub; particularly beneficial to the discerning and experienced track rider.

 

Yep I knew a certain succesfull but unfamous sprinter who swore blind by his wheels that were soldered / wired together because he kept breaking spokes during his sprint.... LOL even the soldered ones used to break sometimes.

Edited December 20, 2010 by SwissVan

[Johan Bornman]

I have read that soldering adds stiffness to the wheel and support to the hub; particularly beneficial to the discerning and experienced track rider.

 

Unlike those other things that work with nipples, hubs don't need support.

 

It does add a tiny fraction of stiffness to a wheel but anyone who pretends to feel the difference is fooling himself.

 

The famously clever Damon Rinard did these stiffness tests which are now archived on Sheldon Brown's website IIRC.

[splat]

I seem to remember pics from not too long ago showing tied and soldered spokes.

I think it was in the tech section on Cyclingnews.com when they did a feature on Paris Roubaix bikes.

Seems quite old school.

 

Google came up with this from CompetitiveCyclist.com.

 

'The wire does the work, and the solder keeps it in place. Why do we tie & solder? It hardens the wheels up in all dimensions. By tying & soldering them, it effectively increases the flange diameter of the hubs, increasing torsional stiffness. The interlaced crosses are locked together when you tie & solder them, which braces the spokes, making them laterally stiffer and more durable.'

 

Cyclingnews.com

Andre Greipel (Columbia-HTC) apparently feels the need for more stiffness in the rear wheel judging by the tied-and-soldered non-driveside spokes.

[Johan Bornman]

I seem to remember pics from not too long ago showing tied and soldered spokes.

I think it was in the tech section on Cyclingnews.com when they did a feature on Paris Roubaix bikes.

Seems quite old school.

 

Google came up with this from CompetitiveCyclist.com.

 

'The wire does the work, and the solder keeps it in place. Why do we tie & solder? It hardens the wheels up in all dimensions. By tying & soldering them, it effectively increases the flange diameter of the hubs, increasing torsional stiffness. The interlaced crosses are locked together when you tie & solder them, which braces the spokes, making them laterally stiffer and more durable.'

 

Cyclingnews.com

Andre Greipel (Columbia-HTC) apparently feels the need for more stiffness in the rear wheel judging by the tied-and-soldered non-driveside spokes.

 

 

Ja ja....and some say Power Balance bands work because the negative ions increase the connection between disfunctional synapses in your brain, which then makes the comms with the middle ear 37.5% better for an overall increase of 102.5% in balance.

[Giant]

Years ago I saw a couple of bike wheels that were "Snowflaked" the spokes were twisted arround each other.

Does anyone else remember this, or is my memory twisting things

[CrashOrRide]

Nowadays, a broken spoke is a non-event and we dont have to restrain the broken spoke. Usually, the rider only notices once the brakes start to touch.

 

So if you brake a spoke (which I've done before), should you just ignore it and ride on??? I normally stop (waist about an 20min) trying to tie it down and then slowly make my way home

[Johan Bornman]

So if you brake a spoke (which I've done before), should you just ignore it and ride on??? I normally stop (waist about an 20min) trying to tie it down and then slowly make my way home

 

 

There is no need to waste time with broken spokes if it isn't flapping around causing damage.

 

But it depends on the lacing and where it broke.

 

If the spokes were interlaced (crossed over and under) and break at the hub, it is usually uneventful. In half the cases it is only noticed when looking for the source of a wobble.

 

Sometimes, when they break at the rim, it may slap around. just wind it around an adjacent spoke and ride on.

 

On a well-built wheel with plenty of tension, the loss of one spoke should not mean the end of your race or ride.

[Johan Bornman]

Years ago I saw a couple of bike wheels that were "Snowflaked" the spokes were twisted arround each other.

Does anyone else remember this, or is my memory twisting things

 

 

No, your memory isn't failing. The most dramatic execution of this party trick was a barbed wire wheel of which the photo was posted here some months back. In this case the builder twisted some SAPIM CX-Ray spokes around each other and put some wire barbs on it, giving the look of a wheel built with barbed wire. It was very cleverly done.

 

Such wheels are of course only for display and short, sedate rides to church, since they will not be stable at all.

 

Not to mention the difficulty in building it and deciding on the right spoke length. I have no idea how they come up with the right lengths - perhaps they just have too much money (CX-Rays are kup to R70 each depending on the source and lengths) and time on their hands, using a trial-and-error method of length selection.

[HowellingWulf]

No, your memory isn't failing. The most dramatic execution of this party trick was a barbed wire wheel of which the photo was posted here some months back. In this case the builder twisted some SAPIM CX-Ray spokes around each other and put some wire barbs on it, giving the look of a wheel built with barbed wire. It was very cleverly done.

 

Such wheels are of course only for display and short, sedate rides to church, since they will not be stable at all.

 

Not to mention the difficulty in building it and deciding on the right spoke length. I have no idea how they come up with the right lengths - perhaps they just have too much money (CX-Rays are kup to R70 each depending on the source and lengths) and time on their hands, using a trial-and-error method of length selection.

 

There ya go fella.