SA Champs - Ladies Vets and Men 50+

[Cervelo 1]

Rumour also has it that SA's were held in PE to ensure the Elites and more inland cyclists are in PE to compete in the EP Herald, allowing the organisers to get more sponsorship for the event. Interestingly enough, the same ppl that organised the EP Herald are also part of the decision makers at CSA.

 

So was safety considered, or was it for money and political reasons?

[scotty]

I can tell you what will happen on Supercycling....

 

CSA will blame everyone else they can and the supercycling team will just take it as that!

 

 

Not sure on that, i hear Andrdew is pretty livid.

 

Popcorn and beer will be ready 7pm.

[Cervelo 1]

Do we have any lawyers in here willing to take on something like this?

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Agreed, I had to do the same, as well as my husband who came to support me. You also don't have to fork out a huge amount for a TT bike when you go watch a movie...

 

I hear you, but legally the principle is the same.

 

So to make it more comparitive lets use an international overseas vacation.

 

You book an overseas ski holiday, you pay for air fare, new boots, new clothes, a babysitter, kennel your dogs, pay a housesitter, give the domestic leave (paid) and experience a massive parking bill at the airport.

 

When you arrive at your ski resort you book in and take a nap, next thing you are rudely awakened by an avalanche bell and you are evacuated for your safety. The hotel is too dangerous to use now, so what happens.?

 

Can you claim a refund for your ski holiday, accomodation portion - YES - can you claim a refund for ALL those other horriffic expense related to you getting to the venue, airfares, parking, time off work, kennels, new boots, haircut, etc etc - NO.! - Those portions delivered.

 

I know you are feeling frustrated and annoyed and out of pocket, I hear that and I understand, I know you dont want to hear you dont have have much recourse, I understand, but thats the facts, it is what it is, the SA courts (if you ever get it there and I am assuming this is your aim) dont place much value on inconvenience and loss, and you will have a tough time convincing any magistrate that an organiser should place a higher value on your costs than your safety.

 

But, hey, you can take a horse to water........good luck with your quest.

[splat]

An avalanche is outside of anyone's control.

The FA Cup @ SA champs was because of bad planning and organisation.

 

To continue with your theme: If you had booked you hotel and skis and lessons and got confirmation that eveyrthing was in order only to find that nothing was ready and your hotel booking didn't exist when you arrived. I think that is how the riders felt in PE.

 

People pay their entry fees and licences and expect everything to be in place so that they can race.

Otherwise that is the point of all these governing bodies and associations and clubs ?

 

Saturday's racing went OK because someone pulled their finger out and fixed the mess.

Sunday's racing seemed to go off without a hitch - because that was planned and organised in advance.

[zabel]

As PE cyclist, let me share a few facts, opinions and rumours with fellow hubbers – please note that I am not involved in ECC or with CSA.

Not many of us REALLY knew how and why East Cape Cycling ECC (incorporating Eastern Cape Cycling & Border Cycling) became the host of the SA’s. Rumour has it that they claimed to have been the first to have made a deposit of a few R million to CSA – a lot of the other provinces seem to think this never happened?

Government has never made big funding available for cycling, so most licensed riders know that CSA serve the political transformation agenda – it takes from cyclists to give to 20 million non-cyclists hoping that 200 will become cyclists.

I think this is called “taking cycling to the people” or is it “taking from cycling people”? Think also of the upcoming Cell C Tour that will ignore good cycling roads and do potholed township routes around PE.

 

The Eastern Cape as poorest province is the political home of the ruling party; add to this a few people involved with ECC and CSA that want to and have perhaps already laid their grubby paws on LOTTO developmunt funding ……………

 

ECC are hampered by a chronic lack of funds, resources and manpower. Club involvement of its approx 26 clubs is minimal and at a recent AGM almost no Clubs even attended. This is well known to CSA – the 2010 ECC President currently works for CSA?

 

As alluded to by an earlier post/thread, ECC and it’s 2011 President elect Shane Bradfield, DID NOT choose the SA route – ECC recommended to CSA the usual quite safe cycling routes on the outskirts of PE that is used for most local races as well as The Herald & Engen races e.g. Greenbushes, Seaview, Maitlands, van Stadens etc.

 

CSA decided that they needed to take cycling “to the people” so insisted on a route through Humewood/Central/Walmer/Summerstrand and this was later amended to Humewood/Central/ Walmer with the Summerstrand section being regarded as “dangerous”. Had CSA perhaps bothered to obtain input from local clubs and riders, they would have realised that neither the original nor the amended route was safe unless there was going to be 100% full road closure.

 

They would also have been told that full or even partial road closure at the Beachfront and suburbs would be almost impossible to achieve during weekdays (even if CSA were able to spend R 350 000 to R 1 mill to pay the Metro for full road closure). With most of the championships being held when people were at work, there would be few if any spectators along the route. Add to this that marshals consisted of untrained pdi’s with bibs and flags, who in a few instances were seen to fall asleep on the job, and things were always going to get messy.

 

CSA preach rider safety, because that is the politically correct thing to, but rider safety was NOT their main priority when the route was chosen; to justify the amended route they later issued a statement that read “The safety of cyclists is the one thing the board of Cycling South Africa (CSA) will never ever compromise on even if it means upsetting a lot cyclists and spectators”.

 

I saw most of the road events on the Thursday and Friday – NOT a single event could be regarded as safe, by even the wildest stretch of the imagination. That there were no fatalities was quite amazing.

 

Many competitors simply pulled off due to safety concerns and close calls with cars and taxis on the route. In order to avoid accidents many cyclists had to come to complete stops at many places on the route, which effectively ended their race as they were pulled off by the officials if their lap times were more than 10% in excess of the leading riders.

 

The agony and embarrassment ended on Saturday afternoon when all was done and dusted and many wildly irate competitors started their return journeys home.

 

A few hours later at 6.00 am on Sunday morning The Volkswagen Herald Cycle race started and when prize giving started at 1.00 pm, it was evident that this event had gone off with relatively few glitches. What was different ? With only a few changes, the organisers and race director were the same ECC people that were involved with the SA’s. Big difference was proper road closure where needed and although the routes all started and ended at the Beachfront, it utilised established routes in Walmer, Seaview, Greenbushes, Maitlands areas BECAUSE THE SAFETY AND NEEDS OF THE CYCLISTS motivated the choices, NOT some inappropriate and misguided CSA ideas.

 

Agreed!!! Well said!!!

 

Hendrik Lemmer should pay back his salary because he is doing a *** job...

[GrumpyOldGuy]

An avalanche is outside of anyone's control.

The FA Cup @ SA champs was because of bad planning and organisation.

 

To continue with your theme: If you had booked you hotel and skis and lessons and got confirmation that eveyrthing was in order only to find that nothing was ready and your hotel booking didn't exist when you arrived. I think that is how the riders felt in PE.

 

People pay their entry fees and licences and expect everything to be in place so that they can race.

Otherwise that is the point of all these governing bodies and associations and clubs ?

 

Saturday's racing went OK because someone pulled their finger out and fixed the mess.

Sunday's racing seemed to go off without a hitch - because that was planned and organised in advance.

 

I was expecting this reply, I am not going to keep argueing the point, - continue and seek legal advice if you feel like doing so, I am saying right or wrong you have no recourse, thats it.

 

Besides, the statement is clear, the event was not held due to safety reasons, rather have a few unhappy cyclists who have gone home safe and sound than a class action case in the high court for negligence because a cyclist got killed.

 

My opinion is clear, if you feel differant, go test it in court.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

With most of the championships being held when people were at work, there would be few if any spectators along the route. Add to this that marshals consisted of untrained pdi’s with bibs and flags, who in a few instances were seen to fall asleep on the job, and things were always going to get messy.

 

 

 

I dont want to hijack the thread, but this piece interests me. I read on another post that in the past the Champs were held on a Sat. - now "Blow me down" but that sounds forward thinking to me, how many gainfully employed folk could take time off to go watch on thursday and friday, but the weekend is differant.

 

So, as someone who knows nothing about SA champs, I am just interested to know, why, if the idea is to take cycling to the people - try and do it during the week when your target market is at work.?

[Chrispy]

Hendrik gets a salary?????

This is volunteer jobs my friend.

Catch a wake up call.

[fandacious]

Hendrik gets a salary?????

This is volunteer jobs my friend.

Catch a wake up call.

 

chrispy, you should know by now that the hub is the fountain of knowledge

 

Generally its a case of the louder the noise, the emptier the vessel. Luckily hendrik is dikvellig and doestn pay much attention to halfwits posting crap on the hub.

 

Oh - and for you detractors - why dont you come ride Tour de Boland (also organized by hendrik) and see the difference. Then you can come here and make an informed opinion.

 

until then, rather keep your blithering unsubstantiated crap to yourselves

[Zeps]

 

snip snip snip

 

rather keep your blithering unsubstantiated crap to yourselves

 

Fand if that were to happen , very little activity would take place here

[fandacious]

Fand if that were to happen , very little activity would take place here

 

but imagine how productive the workplace would be

[Zeps]

but imagine how productive the workplace would be

 

:lol: - so true that

[Napalm]

chrispy, you should know by now that the hub is the fountain of knowledge

 

Generally its a case of the louder the noise, the emptier the vessel. Luckily hendrik is dikvellig and doestn pay much attention to halfwits posting crap on the hub.

 

Oh - and for you detractors - why dont you come ride Tour de Boland (also organized by hendrik) and see the difference. Then you can come here and make an informed opinion.

 

until then, rather keep your blithering unsubstantiated crap to yourselves

 

I couldn't agree more. There's a lot of people involved in cycling in SA that should be thrown out on their asses. Hendrik Lemmer isn't one of them.

[Java001]

Guys don't lose focus here !

It DOES NOT matter whether it is a Barry, David, Roger, Lionel, Kobus, Greg, Clive, Hendrik, Louis, Shane e.t.c. that is responsible for the mess !

 

What is important is that CSA and/or ECC step forward to take ownership of the problem and accept accountability ........... the 4 min odd video clip of Barry Austin on day three blowing bubbles up everyone's ar$&s by "replacing" officials with team managers does not cut it !

 

Also does CSA officials REALLY not get paid ?

 

Just asking, because the financial statements on CSA website show that at 31/8/2010 Year To Date Licensing Income amounted to R 3 mill and Salaries of approx R 800 000 is shown as expense.

 

Also see under expenses a few K spent on Legal Costs, so maybe a legal challenge is not such a far fetched idea ?

[Napalm]

The only ones at CSA that gets paid is the COO, and the admin staff. The rest is volunteer positions