Nikolais Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 Read the following article on a tour around Treks HQ in waterloo.http://www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-tour-29er-proto-2011.html One of the prototypes they had was a 29er DH rig!!!!Now I always wondered if 29ers would stick, and it seems they have, but I have also wondered how soon it would trickle into DH? The Trek had 29er specific Dorados so I am guessing that they are looking into it quite seriously? What are your views?
patches Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 well... Trek isn't the first manufacturer to jump on the 29er DH bike wagon. I dunno who was, but I know the Intense 951 is a 29er DH bike and frames can be bought form CR, and have been available for a while.Here's some pics of the beast...http://www.nsmb.com/assets/images/A-events2009/Intense951/image003.jpghttp://www.tamedearth.com/wp-content/gallery/misc/intense-951-white.jpghttp://dirt.mpora.com/old_images/news/951-BLACK-(2)intense.jpg and judging from these pics, the following (amongst other things) are already available for 29er DH bikes... Fox 40RS BoxxerMavic Deemax Rims
Nikolais Posted February 11, 2011 Author Posted February 11, 2011 WOAH!!!! i did not know that? I am behind on this one.The 951 is sweet.... I rode my Old Mans Gary Fisher HiFi 29er when I visited them in the UK, but feel any noticeable difference from any 26" trail bike?
Nikolais Posted February 11, 2011 Author Posted February 11, 2011 Ok, I have read up on what you said patches. http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/One-Year-Later-Intense-2951-29er-DH-Prototype,112 The standard 951 is just a normal 26", but Intense are working on a 29er prototype - the 2951.This is interesting.
Guest Omega Man Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Those pics are of the std 951 which is a std 26 inch bike. The 2951 has been tested by JD Swangen and is apparently going to be raced by him this year. I'm not so sure about 29 DH bikes. Most of the XC dudes I've seen on them look so high off the ground. I keep expecting them to whip out the bowling pins and start juggling. That might be ok for xc where power transfer and all that stuff is more important but in DH agility and acceleration are more important. The 2951 MIGHT work on the wide open courses but I'm pretty certain they will be crap in the tight stuff. DH and XC have very little in common actually so the fact that it works for XC (and that isn't even certain) doesn't mean it works for DH. Personally I think the entire 29er thing is pure marketing bull**** to get us to buy even more stuff we don't really need. The same way most of the "standards" that the bike companies continually change are. Edited February 11, 2011 by Omega Man
patches Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 hahah! my bad Seems I heard via the grapevine that all 951s were 29ers and the big walled rims and huge tyres made it hard to see the difference... I retract my previous statements, hahaha!
Nikolais Posted February 11, 2011 Author Posted February 11, 2011 No stress, I am keen to see what becomes of this......I agree that the frame shape makes the wheel look WAAY huge on the 951But how hectic are the wheels (in the above article) on the 2951?? And the 26 Rear/29 Front combo - a modern take on the 'Big Hit's of old.
nigelhicks Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 well... Trek isn't the first manufacturer to jump on the 29er DH bike wagon. I dunno who was, but I know the Intense 951 is a 29er DH bike and frames can be bought form CR, and have been available for a while.and judging from these pics, the following (amongst other things) are already available for 29er DH bikes... Sorry Patches but Nic is correct. The 951's that are shown in your images are 26" bikes. Intense designed and tested a 29er DH bike called the 2951 ... There is NO Production model out yet and wont be for a while this is from Dirt Mags convo with Jeff Steber (owner of Intense) “Something I have wanted to do for some time & topic of many debates.With a little help from Manitou / Sun & WTB we have the “2951″This first proto is in the medium range 23.5 effective tt.G3 dropout & Head tube14″ bb in middle, w 64.5 ha @ 0CS 18.25″WB 48″Where do you start with this, so I went with tried & true and we have a bit of adjustability to play with.Travel is at 7.5 or 8″ with adjustable link.fork is reduced to 7″So everyone who has thrown a leg over it is blown away in one aspect or another.This is just a test project at this point & hope to get some team riders on real tracks in near future. Tires are the biggest issue at this point but if it pans out I am sure Intense Tires will step up for some racing rubber choices.The 951 frame works well for this as there is alot of room for seatube tire clearance.”
Nikolais Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) I do think that 29er DH bikes would have to have a lower COG to aid agility as Omega Man said.But I do not see Pro's cutting their times down solely due to running 29" wheels.... I do think that other advances in technology will aid this, but wheel size... I am not sure. That said... If pros ran 24" wheels I am sure this would hinder rolling momentum - So I am unsure.... As I said before I have ridden my Old Mans 29er when I was in the Uk and I did some single Track and trail - I didnt find the handling much different as I rode the same trails on a standard 26" bike as well.And it was rather rooty and slightly tech in sections - but then again, I am a hacker!!!! HAHAHAHA We will have to see what becomes of this. Edited February 17, 2011 by Nikolais
nigelhicks Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 oh and you actually talk to the pros who have raced 29ers (even XC) and get their real opinions (not th eones they have for media - which all say its great) and a lot of them dont like the 29ers. They are however an amazing bike for big guys .... its like a 16 inch for a 5 year old - a 20 inch for a 10 year old - a 24 inch for a 13 year old - a 26 inch for a normal sized person - a 29er for someone whos 190cm and over ... its all relative to proportions.
Nikolais Posted February 17, 2011 Author Posted February 17, 2011 Good point Nige - makes sense to have a bigger wheel for guys closing in on the 2m mark like me....
Seansquatch Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 Just on a side note, the std 26" downhill bike (large size) whatever it may be is already a long bike if made into a 29" the frame design would have to be major, owing to the extra wheel base and as such manouverability will be affected. The bike cannot possibly have the same wheel base as the bike would be very high off the ground and its balance point would be screwed up. I was just wondering how you think the problem could be solved?
Capricorn Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 IIRC, it was one of the yeti factory riders who happened to be spinning around on the 2951 that said the 29'er is a bit harder to manipulate in the air, table topping/whipping etc. stands to reason with the higher gyroscopic forces generated by the larger rotating mass of the wheels.Larger wheels will definitely gobble up what a 26" wheel would consider gnar.
patches Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 IIRC, it was one of the yeti factory riders who happened to be spinning around on the 2951 that said the 29'er is a bit harder to manipulate in the air, table topping/whipping etc. stands to reason with the higher gyroscopic forces generated by the larger rotating mass of the wheels.Larger wheels will definitely gobble up what a 26" wheel would consider gnar. I've thought about this... and wondered in it really makes that much of a difference?! So I decided to doodle it out (mostly to test AutoCAD for mac, haha) and here's the result: Green = 29" wheel with 2.5" tyreMagenta = 26" wheel with 2.5" tyreRed Block (obstacle) is 150mm high. Dashed lines were used to work out a percentage of the wheel radius that is "over the obstacle"... 26" = 23%29" = 26% What the drawing actually means and how to interpret it and the 3% difference... I don't know... just thought I'd draw a quick pikcha, hahaha!
Capricorn Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) patches: shallower contact angles wrt edges of obstacles for the 29er vs the 26er, so 'easier' mounting/rolling of objects. As an exaggeration of the effect, go try to mount a pavement with skateboard wheels versus that of your DH sled. I recommend a full face lid for the skateboard experiment Edited March 4, 2011 by Capricorn
CJ-Claudette Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 well... Trek isn't the first manufacturer to jump on the 29er DH bike wagon. I dunno who was, but I know the Intense 951 is a 29er DH bike and frames can be bought form CR, and have been available for a while.Here's some pics of the beast...http://www.nsmb.com/assets/images/A-events2009/Intense951/image003.jpghttp://www.tamedearth.com/wp-content/gallery/misc/intense-951-white.jpghttp://dirt.mpora.com/old_images/news/951-BLACK-(2)intense.jpg and judging from these pics, the following (amongst other things) are already available for 29er DH bikes... Fox 40RS BoxxerMavic Deemax Rims wow!!!! thats what a bike should look like!!! gggggrrrrrr......
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