Heart rate - is it normal to be in Zone 5 more than 3 Hours

[Supervan]

Just go for a VO2 Max test, that will accurately determine your max heart-rate, and at which heart-rate you enter into a different training-zone.

 

What is the best place to go and do the VO2 testing

[Tubeless]

Yes... 220 - age..(43)

 

Male Athlete = 184

Sedentary Male = 180

Female Athlete = 190

Sedentary Female = 179

 

Why do I get 177 (220-43) ?

[Supervan]

Ok Saint, I agree with you, as I am a 43 yo recreational cylist. I know my max is in the 185 to 190 region (Garmin says 185), which works for me.

 

On you suggestion to prep for races, I have entered the Argus.

 

My general training is a 41 km route at least 3 times a week with 320m of climbing. My ave HR sits at 160-ish, with max generally between 175 and 180. It takes me about 1hr 50 to complete, and of that I spend about 1 hr in zone 4.

 

I want to shoot for around 5 hrs at the Argus (less would be great), so how would you suggest I spend the next three weeks training?

 

Should I train base? (my route at 70-80% intensity)

Do I push intevals? (have never done them till this morning, 40s sprints with 120 sec recovery)

Do I go and climb Hills? (I have a nice hill that is about 5-6% and about 3kms long)

 

Sorry if this is a hijack, but I am actually trying to work on my HR related training, so I think it fits with the topic, plus some guys get some advice too

 

GTRacing on the hub send me this...

 

Go slower, get faster

 

It sounds impossible but this is the basic starting point for HR training. I started off by doing long Zone 1 and Zone 2 rides. It was slow, boring and tortuous at times. What happened over a period of months was amazing. In a nutshell I was still riding in Zone 2 but I was zipping along compared with when I started. By going slower I’d made my body more efficient. It was like a light being switched on: if I can go this fast in Zone 2 then just how fast could I go in the higher zones?

 

Fletcher, who’s an exercise physiologist, is adamant that by going slow you will get faster. The Evesham-based coach even has a mug on his desk emblazoned with the words ‘slow is the new fast’. But he has some sage words for anyone who thinks that HR training is like waving a magic wand. “Training is boring. Anyone who says they can make base training sessions more entertaining and can introduce fun is kidding you. Just accept it that those long, steady rides on the bike will be boring but they will bring results. There are no shortcuts and no quick fixes.”

 

Because discipline for these slow rides is so important, it’s probably a good idea to ride them on your own, without the temptation of trying to keep up with faster mates, or rising to the bait of village sign sprints or traffic light grand prixs. Key session: 3hrs in Zone 2. Stay in the zone and stick to it. Don’t be tempted to push on the hills.

 

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/training-heart-rate-monitor-basics-28838

Edited February 16, 2011 by Supervan

[The Saint]

Daloco - Two weeks should be spent in your peak phase and one week in taper phase.

 

Peak phase should be upping the time in the saddle as well as the intensity.

 

Taper phase should be low intensity just turning the legs over ie. doing the 40k rides.

 

Right so you will see that I have indicated your normal training in the taper phase. One of the biggest mistakes made is that people don't train the distance. If you are going to ride a 110km race you need to train your body to be able to take the stresses that go along with that and you need to do training rides of at least 110km's. Essentially you are upping your distance on race day by 170% and you can never expect to do or feel well when making such a large jump in what your body is adapted to.

 

I would suggest that in the next 2 weeks try to get in at least some 70k rides in order to try to get your body in tune with what you are going to put it through - it is a little late but I think it may help you a bit on race day. The up percentage wise in training distance is also a little extreme but hey you don't have much time left. Your increase in training distance should normally be about 10k per week or every 2 weeks in order to get your body to adapt properly.

 

Hope this helps

[Supervan]

Supervan - on the question of max heart rate looking at your graph you can see that in some instances you have spiked over the top of your red zone - this could be an indication that you may have a higher max heart rate than expected or it may also simply be that you passed under a power line at that time. Personally I find the 220 less age formula to be a general indication which for us mere mortals is sufficient to work with. No need for a 43 year old recreational cyclist to go to the extent of having to throw up all over the place only to find out that you are 190 and not 188.

 

However at this stage of your cycling your max heart rate is not really a major concern. You should rather be more concerned at your recovery. Recovery is an indication of fitness. Fitness comes from rest not from hammering it all day long in a training session. Your training should consist of a base phase, a build phase, peak phase and a taper phase. You should in short plan your races well ahead of time and like anything in life prepare for it and not just arrive and expect to do well.

 

Once again you would need to look at your training and how you are doing that training - one visit to Suikerbos per week is not really going to help. Yuo should be doing at least 5 days per week with 2 days rest, much like your normal work week - Suikerbos is also a different type of terrain as opposed to a fast leg speed race like the Ride for Sight, so you need to train differently for different races - once again good preparation.

 

I managed to get my max heart rate to 185 on one of the hills is Suikerbos. I think i pushed myself into a zone that is not safe. Maybe for a short period, but need to recovery to a lower zone. My time on the race was looking good. My time on top of the hill in Heidelberg turning over the freeway 2h30. I completed the race in 3h52. The last portion of the race a killer...

[Supervan]

Why do I get 177 (220-43) ?

 

This calculation is a very ruff estimate. It is not always true...

[DaLoCo]

@ Supervan - I downloaded that article, and it will form the basis of my training after the Argus, some good reading there.

 

@ Saint. You are right in that I need to do the distance training as well, but I never have time in the morning for such distances, but was planning a 70 -80 km ride for a Saturday arvo in the next two weeks. It will be a hot ride but I will take my Camelbak as well. I did do the Herald VW two weekends ago, and would have done a sub 5 hr if I did not start cramping at abou 20 km due to bad nutritional planning. I spent 5:20 on the bike moving according to Garmin, but my time was 5:40 due to stretching. Most of the race my HR was in zone 3, which meant I was basically just nursing the legs home..

 

As for higher intensity on my training rides, would that mean that I should try and do more time in zone 4 and 5?

[The Saint]

The last portion of the race a killer...

It's called "Hitting the wall". Your body can only take so much abuse for so long before it shuts down. That is a natural instinct called "Self Preservation"

[Supervan]

@ Supervan - I downloaded that article, and it will form the basis of my training after the Argus, some good reading there.

 

@ Saint. You are right in that I need to do the distance training as well, but I never have time in the morning for such distances, but was planning a 70 -80 km ride for a Saturday arvo in the next two weeks. It will be a hot ride but I will take my Camelbak as well. I did do the Herald VW two weekends ago, and would have done a sub 5 hr if I did not start cramping at abou 20 km due to bad nutritional planning. I spent 5:20 on the bike moving according to Garmin, but my time was 5:40 due to stretching. Most of the race my HR was in zone 3, which meant I was basically just nursing the legs home..

 

As for higher intensity on my training rides, would that mean that I should try and do more time in zone 4 and 5?

 

 

Higher intensity = Hill training.

[The Saint]

@ Supervan - I downloaded that article, and it will form the basis of my training after the Argus, some good reading there.

 

@ Saint. You are right in that I need to do the distance training as well, but I never have time in the morning for such distances, but was planning a 70 -80 km ride for a Saturday arvo in the next two weeks. It will be a hot ride but I will take my Camelbak as well. I did do the Herald VW two weekends ago, and would have done a sub 5 hr if I did not start cramping at abou 20 km due to bad nutritional planning. I spent 5:20 on the bike moving according to Garmin, but my time was 5:40 due to stretching. Most of the race my HR was in zone 3, which meant I was basically just nursing the legs home..

 

As for higher intensity on my training rides, would that mean that I should try and do more time in zone 4 and 5?

 

The bulk of your time in zone 4 with brief visits to the zone 5 area.

As for the cramping that in most cases is related to not training the distance rather than diet. To help with cramps increase your salt intake the night before and also carry Rennies with you on race day - when you feel the legs starting to stiffen up suck on a Rennies they tend to have some good properties for relieving cramp.

[SeaBee]

I am just shy of your age - and if I had that as my real max, I'd have been leading some harp choir and wearing white. I think my ave in some sessions comes close to my "theoretical max" - some people's hearts beat faster, some slower - and it does not make you a better or worse cyclist either way.

 

You maxed out at 182 - already above the "conventional" 177 from the formula. Look at your maxes over time, and when you know you've really really pushed hard. You don't reach your max by accident! This will give you a better idea if you're not going for a test.

 

Also use Karvonen formula (once you've obtained your real max and resting HR's) - this zones you a bit differently as well. (It is one of the options in the Polar software as well, if I remember correctly.)

[Li Mu Bai]

your max heartrate setting on your device is probably wrong.

 

using the age formula is not accurate.

you should go and have a Vo2max test done to determine your actual maximum heart rate.

use that value in your device, and you may see a different graph.

an elevated heart rate may also indicate you are getting sick (flu) or are overtrained.

 

maintaining a heart rate in zone 5 for over 3 hours would normally not be possible, because after a while you would reach your lactate threshold and your muscles would burn from the lactic acid produced and you would slow down (body defense mechanism) or bonk.

 

you would have to be fitter than Chuck Norris to maintain that heartrate level on your graph and not feel it after. riding at that level of stess to your heart/body isn't healthy, do it every ride and soon you will be playing chess.

[The Saint]

I think the main lesson to be learned here is "Listen to your body". No matter what any device says or the readings it is giving, you as an individual know when you are poked.

 

When your body tells you it is tiered, Slow Down give it a rest let the bunch go. It really is only a bicycle outing and nobody other than you really cares if you came 100th or 175th. Frankly to risk killing yourself over a battle for 99th and 100th place is really not worth it.

[DaLoCo]

The bulk of your time in zone 4 with brief visits to the zone 5 area.

As for the cramping that in most cases is related to not training the distance rather than diet. To help with cramps increase your salt intake the night before and also carry Rennies with you on race day - when you feel the legs starting to stiffen up suck on a Rennies they tend to have some good properties for relieving cramp.

 

Thanks, Zone 4 and 5 it is then. I will calm down the week before, as my bike will be going to Cptn already, so I will putter around on the Mtb.

 

The night before the Herald I dehydrated due to a slight infection in my sinusses (read, I had to pee every 45 minutes) without rehydrating. My prerace meal consisted of a smoothie with Banana, milk, pronutro and some cinnamon. I only took water and some energy gels.....

 

The rennies advice I read the week before, but I have never cramped. This time round I shall have rennies, a good sportsdrink like 32GI and also make sure I have atleast a banana or two with me when I ride.

 

I am not looking to ace the Argus, but I do not want to be so ruined that I do not enjoy the experience of it either, it is my first one.

[Supervan]

I think the main lesson to be learned here is "Listen to your body". No matter what any device says or the readings it is giving, you as an individual know when you are poked.

 

When your body tells you it is tiered, Slow Down give it a rest let the bunch go. It really is only a bicycle outing and nobody other than you really cares if you came 100th or 175th. Frankly to risk killing yourself over a battle for 99th and 100th place is really not worth it.

 

I agree......

[DaLoCo]

I think the main lesson to be learned here is "Listen to your body". No matter what any device says or the readings it is giving, you as an individual know when you are poked.

 

When your body tells you it is tiered, Slow Down give it a rest let the bunch go. It really is only a bicycle outing and nobody other than you really cares if you came 100th or 175th. Frankly to risk killing yourself over a battle for 99th and 100th place is really not worth it.

 

This is good advice, If I did not do this on the Herald and tried to stay with people I would have gone home with the sweeper....