We also spoke in depth about the whole ref red card thing this weekend as I was also red carded in EL under very controversial circumstances. Why not time penalty everything? So someone handed you a bottle.......... so put you in a penalty tent for 2 minutes or even 5 minutes instead of DQ'ing and pulling you out of the race. I can promise you that in the P-tent you feel like an idiot already and will not repeat the mistake again. The same with "littering" on the run (take note only the run). When you get tired you sometimes lose focus I have seen it a lot - its a mistake. Some refs makes the guys go back and pick up whatever they drop and then let them off. Other refs gets a hard-on and DQ's you on the spot. Double standards bottom line I have seen it happen more than once and experienced it. We are used to keeping saches on the bike but the run is different. After 14 hours of racing the brain isnt normal anymore and in one moment of not focussing you could let anything drop. Getting to IM cost us a hell of a lot of effort and money and to destroy it all in a moment of stupidity (from both sides I guess) is just silly in my view. The organisers are changing everyone into being too scared to do anything. Example this past weekend again. At the far point of the running course they decided to put 2 guys to hand out water. No litter zone nothing. People took water saches and dropped them 30 metres afterwards. Non litter zone. If there was a ref he would have had a field day. I assume that the organisers realized the heat and mad a contingency plan which I gladly appreciate but how can you DQ a guy on the other side of the track dropping a sache 2 meters after the litter zone when on the other side everyone is littering out of zone in any case. This did not happen but just sayen it seems the shoe is worn when it fits. Look at EL again. Argus like bunches on the way back. Everyone drafted and I mena everyone yet only a handfull got penalties????? Again, T-Penalty everything first time round. if the okes does it again then red card him. But ja, then you mail them and they just ignore you. It is clear they dont listen to the athletes. PS:- In trail running we also dont litter. We do however always have a sweep. A person that runs the whole course last and picks up any junk that may have fallen (volentary or by accident) so the course is clean. Again why the major issue on the run? You only gotta sweep 3km's of road and clean up after the race (as 2km is repeat road) this past weekend.