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Yes, Linnega, - I didnt see the first post either - not even sure I was here - but I read the front page of this site and its incensed me. What you are saying has merit, but unfortunately, too many organisations jump on the "upliftment" bandwagon in the hope of attracting the bigger money and funding, when in fact, they are doing no more than "training" a few lucky individuals (who are usually already in a position to better themselves) to become elitist. This is not "upliftment" - this is "gifting". I disagree, that mobility is like providing a house without water, one cannot live in todays society without visiting city centres and social areas, most of these kids live miles from such social interaction and walk 10 kms to school and back, they walk to the shops, they walk to visit community centres they walk to fetch water, the drudge of daily life is tough enough for these kids. Mobility is a MAJOR part of genuine upliftment, getting them shoes and warm clothes, three squares a day and an education far outweighs any sporting plan right now. Mallo - I am well aware many folk are doing their best, there are many,many good people out there who are really trying, and we have to admire and support them. This programme has merit, but, its the easy road, if we really want to uplift kids and get them into a cycling culture, we have to get our hands dirty, I dont agree in this selective upliftment.

Well, thats sad because I have strong opinions on this - I am heavily involved with programmes with the most disadvantaged youngsters - (those who sniff glue on the street corners) and believe me they dont have these priorities. I dont see why we cant have a reasonable discussion on this, there is no need for it to deteriorate into a slanging match, but I do feel the priorities here are a bit wayward. Its easy to help (as big mamma noted) "disadvantaged" kids from reasonably stable households (ie) those who have a meal every day and attend schooling - but there is also much bigger picture to look at.

.............this Velokhaya programme and the fact they are looking for funds. Now although I looked very carefully through its statement etc it appears to me to be looking purely at one aspect of cycling (ie)the sporting side. I would hazard that most of the youngsters targeted would need mobility more than they would need an expensive bicycle for sport purpose. Now, maybe someone can fill me in (as I have been in Australia for a few weeks) and perhaps lost a bit of SA judgement,- but any initiave to uplift people begins with getting them mobile which enables them to get to school,to work,to community centres and to participation events etc. How is teaching a few kids to BMX ride going to achieve this?- these kids barely have enough food to eat, they walk everywhere sometimes up to 3 hours to their destination and then back, from my experience their priorities are basic,(and believe it or not, I am involved in some programmes so I know what I am talking about) and mobility is a big priority. Surely a programme to assist people to get mobile as a priority is more important than getting them into a sports team.? If this programme dos this, they are hiding it very well in their mission statement - I am all for "upliftment", but I am totally against "gifting" which has never worked anywhere.

.........with inane comments like this..........need I say more.!

Yes, sorry I missed it - rather unfortunate!

................that after been out of the country for 3 weeks, I find that nothing has changed here.!! It seems there is still no tolerance, no understanding, no intelligent discussion and no real interest in changing. In a perverse kind of way, I am sort of pleased - it frees up the 35 odd minutes I used to devote here to other things. Although I must say I am sorry I missed entering the competition on the TDF stages.

Well, similar Yes.

A strictly cycling board like this has been has a limited lifespan. Theres only so much information, before it becomes a repeat. One of the reasons I asked if perhaps it may be interesting to some to have selected alternative SPORT forums within the HUB framework. Otherwise, a lot of folk will just drift off to other sites which interest them - I would suggest, lets try and keep them here and increase the members who dont cycle with a small selection of other sport forums. Sorry Mud Dee - the "Slackers" arnt part of it.

I think cervelo, that serious posts under the chit-chat forum tend to get lost amongst the waffle. To discuss serious points there needs to be dedication - the chit chat forum is fine for those who want to do just that "chit-chat" - but if a runner wants to discuss say "tHE BOSTON MARATHON" there needs to be a dedicated forum for people who have a genuine interest, otherwise you get posts like "that runners hot" which is irrelevant.! Anyway, its just a thought, I understand if admin / the members or whoever want to keep it a "single interest board" but personally I think it will revive an interest on the board.

...............and I know some people may think its a "new experience" for me, but I honestly think one of the big problems with a single entity board like "the hub" is that there is a limit to what one can discuss and this tends to shorten the "lifespan" of the board. Now I enjoy cycling (thats why I pop in here) but I also enjoy doing other things (as I am sure do many folk here) and post on other boards where relevant, ...............so ...........................what do you fellas think of maybe having a seperate forum, under the Hub banner for a few selected other sports? Obviously, there are runners here as there are tri-athletes, surely they would make some interesting posts on these events for everybody to enjoy. It just adds a new dimension to the same old cycling routine here. It may also entice runners and tri-athletes to come chat about cycling or vice versa and enlarge the board members size. I dont know much about computers and programmes and maybe its cost inhibitive...........if so, well, okay, but if not whats the worst that can happen, ..............nobody gos there and the admin can shut it down in 6 months.!! I dont think it will change the flavour of the Hub, if anything it will entice new blood and maybe make it more interesting to others. Whats the general opinion.??

Just for a minute...........just one minute, some folk need to think further than the norms. The issue is not......did he (LA) dope, didnt he dope, did "Lenny the Legs" dope.......didnt he dope - the issue is the "Culture Surrounding Doping." I dont care who doped or who didnt - but I care about international cycling as a sport, I like to think that the winner was the best man, I like to think the race results were not skewed, I like to think the end result was the outcome of long hard hours of sacrifice, I like to think the awards and accolades go to the right athlete, I like to think they are presenting an honest face to the world, I like to think when I read a magazine about an athlete its the truth and not open bald face lies. Thats the issue......................not the individual athlete.!! .............and in my opinion THATS VERY RELEVANT.!

I give up, - I am going home.!

Well, I am bored to tears at the office and I have exhausted all the posts here. The T/Switzerland is not boring - actually some good racing going on. Boring or not, doping is a big issue internationally,and I think its very relevant, - CNN even carried an interview with a journo in London and he was saying spectator figures are down, TV coverage is down, interest is down and they attribute it to the doping issues. Anyway, what do ya think of the NAME and SIGN petition the UCI has introduced - (ie) the riders of all the Pro teams need to sign they will allow their DNA to be tested, they sign they are dope free, they sign they had nothing to do with Puerto, they sign that if caught doping they will forfeit 1 years pay and the UCI will publish these names publicly on their web site. I think its great, riders not prepared to sign must surely then expect to have a question mark hung over their heads. I also think the UCI and ASO will put pressure on managers to stop riders not prepared to sign from riding the tour or any other race for that matter. Yup - a good thing.!Now lets see who signs and who hides. widget2007-06-20 07:47:55

.............to post anything. Theres lots happening internationally but no comments,- Basso says he has 3 offers,the UCI brings out a name and sign petition, T-Mobile has released Honchar, Rumors of Hincapie off to T-Mobile, Murgalia is in a doping issue,the Tour of Switzerland is going and no comments,...................I guess we just love our pets eh? (no offence Kona fan - I also enjoyed the posting.)widget2007-06-20 07:15:56

Yes, he was HR, but theres not many days left for him to take back time, certainly Schleck can match him in the mountains, so I dont know how he expects to win.

Frank must be one of the main contenders for this years TDF, I dont think Vino is up to scratch and it looks doubtfull Valverde will even start. Although I must say this years TDF route looks so "HO-HUM" boring, Petacchi could probably win it.!! How can a race like the "Tour of Switzerland" have more climbs than the TDF?? - ITS RIDICULOUS - so the race will be won on the TT - Lets all YAWN now.!!

I trained hard (well I thought so anyway) last year and raced a lot. Got bored to death.! This year I have been doing a ride or a race only when I feel like it - I look out the window and if its cold, hot,rainy or windy, I go right back to bed or do something else. I have enjoyed weekends away hiking, I"ve played more golf than ever before, I"ve gone scuba diving, I"ve spent enjoyable morning with my wife at the local coffee shop over breakfast, I"ve gone to early morning movies and occassionally Ive just vegged out all day. I really have little interest right now. .........

Geee, holy roller - thats hectic man.!! ........But I can SYMPATHISE, one of my company trucks was stolen on Saturday, I was doing a mid winter scuba dive and when I got out I saw a message on my mobile from "Tracker" to say the vechile has been reported stolen, and they were following up. Anyway, they found the bakkie about 5kms from where it was stolen, minus a bit of cargo but otherwise fine. The poor driver couldnt get hold of me (I was obviously underwater) and after reporting it, and the truck been recovered (it was a matter of 15 minutes) had to "hoof" it all the way back to the truck again, - needless to say he was a bit peeved. The biggest issue of all was laying a charge and opening a docket at the police station - took nearly two frustrating hours.!!

Grief.............one would have expected the newspaper to have some kind of journalism ethical code and not publish pictures which are clearly not local or relevant to the problem in the area. One has to wonder as too the intentions of the author.?

Yes, I shall also be in London for the Pro-logue. Although I have to say it was not my main intention - which was a planned trip to Italy for a few days, however flying via London gave me the opportunity to spend a few nights and view the first day. I have to say I am not fanatical about seeing the race, I will obviously pop by and see whats up but if its a madhouse (as I suspect) I will just move on. There faaaaaar to much to do in London to waste it in a 10 deep spectator maul around a barrier. I dont do the package thing either - plan everything on my own.Actually I dont usually plan anything except the first two nights accomodation - from there I plan my day as I feel. Just as an aside Gary - did you also get stung by the massive increase in air fares to London over that period?? Fares now about R11000.00 inc taxes TO LONDON - any other time R5000.00 or there about.

Yes a fine idea, BUT, ...........only if its open to ALL clubs, I dont think it can be selective. You could charge a nominal fee to the club, but it must be an "open" invitation to all clubs.