(Deon)

I've been speaking to SANBI over several years regarding the landscape change, also the head of the alien detection unit and all agree that the world class status is a holistic view. @Mayhem, I heard from Tony Rebelo that Tokai lost it's tree champion status early 2012 when certain trees were found growing in north Africa that supersedes the height found here. These gums also hold no historical value as they do not make up part of the original Arboretum.. Zip line canopy tours could be an added activity in the precinct development project.

..with what, trying to keep up with the bunch on his trusted old 26" MTB?

of him riding it like that?

I dunno, hardly a stress point... looks like a scratch. I've fixed for you.

I have placed it in about 3 different posts throughout the thread. It is probably the most important part of this entire debate. I am adding to it with a detailed breakdown of events. We (the interested people) had two choices; a public election where the people vote for anyone they wanted on the committee, or we stick to the status quo and all the people I have been working with for ±2 years, accept spots on the committee to be ratified in a public meeting (on the next TMMTB forum meeting agenda possibly). I received the draft constitution at the end of June and posted it to Vince, Myles and Gary on the 2nd. Vince replied on the 4th saying he was happy and asked on progress on the 25th. At a meeting on the 25th all were still happy. Vince presented his idea for the trails and was pushing for approval. Duane was interested in joining and I subsequently replied to the minutes of the meeting stating that I acknowledged his wishes to be involved and minuted the explanation of the trail rationale. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: TokaiMTB Date: Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Meeting Thursday 25/07/2013 To: Duane Bosch Cc: Vince Muir , garybarnard, Myles Mayhew Two things: 1. Myles and Gary, in addition to you and Vince are also to be added to the TokaiMTB constitution. I am inquiring the costs and process of registering a VA. 2. A new interim solution for a "loop" as presented by Vince might not be possible, I expressed this and offered my reasoning that TMNP does not easily approve temp trails. They have specifically requested a broad plan for future trails which I have explained has already been drawn up and includes a singletrack climb from Fairie Garden up to level 5. My next step is to get commitment in writing from TMNP that new trails will in fact be approved following the required public participation and EMP studies. Up to this point, the motivation to continue planning for extra trails and formalising the management group has been based on their verbal request for future world-class trails. Please note that I was not aware this was to be attended by anyone else other than Vince and myself as indicated in his email and sms. Apologies to Gary and Myles as I did not extend the invite. In this time I was exploring NPO registrations, choosing between VA or NPC. I consulted Meurant and had in depth discussions about the pros and cons of each. NPC is expensive, VA not. I had also consulted accountants offered to me by Gary Kruger to take care of all registration and auditing costs. This brought me through to mid August when I then started looking into setting up a funding group who would assist in managing funds and essentially oversee the budget for each year. This offered security as there was a layer between the committee and the funds and would help in transparency. I sent the draft constitution to all interested funding group parties, it was discussed and eventually approved. August 30, Vince and Duane exited Tokai on Facebook "TokaiMTB trail builders assos." They expressed their dissatisfaction at the pace of the dealings in Tokai. I had to continue despite this setback and asked trusted and respected people to stand in on the committee. I did not have a plan on how to proceed so contacted Gary B to get commitment that we still had a DH rep on board. He asked that I please be patient as family matters would need to take priority. As I was tasked with setting up the bank account and the NPO, I did as much research I felt was needed to offer me peace of mind that it was indeed the correct procedure. All remaining was the ratification still needed but by this time it was November and a public meeting was not going to be called for the remainder of 2013. In January 2014 I was asked to attend the I&AP meeting that would take place at the TMMTB's first internal meeting for 2014. Since it was a presentation of the aggrieved group, it was not needed that I provide any comment. I have still not been asked for any detail of the proceedings leading up to the AGM. As I said in the beginning of the post, and somewhere near the start of this thread, I welcome the AGM, it was always supposed to take place. It would however been a ratification if the intertsted parties applied some understanding and patience. This is by no means "a quick thing." Ed: sp

Flowta, I am not asking for his membership to be reinstated. That he was banned for posting what we are in agreement of means that there is a problem with what we believe is the solution. Was his banning consulted with anyone who has tried making things work on this forum? I have looked at the list of likes attached to the explanation and it seems several members of this forum and I&AP's are in agreement that it transpired. Please explain.

What is happening on Facebook? Myles has been banned for posting what we are in agreement is a summary of the chain of events. Are we not all owed an explanation from Vince as to what is untrue?

..you're all koo koo

Thanks man! You have my vote! Such dedication is what we need on that committee..

WOW, thanks for getting it done!! So proxies then? Guess if guys really want to vote they should get down there..

Me too Mayhem. Unfortunately there is just not enough hours in the day to follow all the social media AGM announcements and get work done, so here I still sit in the same clothes as the last time I posted. I fear my as is surely square!! I would however like to know some of the details of the evening.. was Jack Black the most popular?? It won hands down at all the previous meetings...

+1

Here is the correspondence I was sent before this campaign took flight. It is said earlier that I was given a chance, you decide what chance I had. On 9 Dec 2013, at 17:59, Vince wrote: Hi Deon After sending you the proposed trail map I envisioned for Tokai I haven't heard anything from you. Richard and I have had a discussion with Gavin Bell and Sandra Hollerman. Our main objective was to find out exactly what your role was in the greater scheme of things as well as the other role players and so called representatives of MTB in Tokai. We explained our role in the MTB arena in Cape Town and discussed representation and how unhappy we are at the state of the existing trails as well as trail closures and value for money in light of the many new MTB alternatives in Cape Town. In return they explained the workings of their system and what we should be doing to get the best use of the land that they manage. It was very interesting to get the truth about what needs to happen in order to achieve our goals WRT trails in Tokai and the options available to us. I would like to meet with you (by myself) and have a frank and honest discussion to see how you feel about the current situation and how we can build trails in Tokai on a par with and better than anywhere in Cape Town and I want to know if you are prepared to join us in our campaign to achieve this. No hidden agendas, no secrets and no politics, just a unified body of passionate mountain bikers getting organised and building our dream MTB trail park. I would like to keep this between you and I until after we have met. Let me know if and when. Regards Vince -----Original Message----- From: TokaiMTB: Deon Sent: 10 December 2013 11:46 PM To: Vince Subject: Re: Tokai MTB trails- confidential I would like to know what was discussed with Sandra, it would help if you gave me some insight before we met. From: "Vince" Date: 11 December 2013 08:46:23 GMT+02:00 To: "'TokaiMTB: Deon'" Subject: RE: Tokai MTB trails- confidential I see, suit yourself. It is still my firm belief that these guys despite their methods, still do want the best Tokai can offer. I have never had any doubt about this. Duane, you I'll gladly work with. I have said that in email even while you were angry with me after you exited. I have no qualms.. your words above does not change this. I have tried with Vince and 3 years later there is still no solution.. I can't see this going any further without me suffering. I will support whoever wants the best for the place but they need to do all they can to rope in the disrespect for the processes, landowners and those tasked with getting this thing working! Can I sumarize? I do feel firmly that we should not be overspending on insecure trails. Many people love the Snake trails. <Attached> TokaiMTB - Tweets 231113-Final.pdf I agree that more can be done on the track to make it better during the time of negotiations, but materials need to be sourced but this not even a professional can supply and will be working under the same constraints as I am. (and the Volunteers, I love you guys! Read about yourselves in the January Ride Mag, photos too, still on shelves!) I am still bringing Bennett in on Tuesday. He's a really nice guy and has been supportive because he knows the game. He will remain a neutral party at all costs! We need him later!! ..ah heck, I have work to finish.. I can be firm but above all I am fair.

I think just listen for a while... please. EDIT: we might have nothing soon and the reasons are numerous.

It's not about me being anywhere, it's about what you say you want and what you show to be the opposite. You claim this is a win. I say yes, but it's a loss in the long run. Why? Your continual flaunting of the rules does not seem to have the best interest for the job that will be set out before me if I take any position, especially one of parks liaison. Why should I take the position? Whyy should anyone when there is a very real possibility that I will be sharing the role with you? I know you don't build the illegal tracks but are you saying that you will ride them and let your friends ride them while I sit in a room with the people asking that you don't. How long have I asked that you don't ride these tracks, how long have I been telling Vince to tell his group not to. Has he posted any info around this yet? It is his responsibility as the self elected communication channel on his closed facebook group to, and I quote "I've removed all non dh riders from this group including Deon so that we can discuss dh matters in private without having gay keyboard wars. Deon and I will either speak in person or on the phone from now on and I will keep everyone informed of all developements and news at all times." TMNP have tried closing the tracks, I have tried closing the tracks, Vince saw a guy with a rake and a spade off to build something somewhere but like you, stands idle letting them knowing there is sensitivity around people with spades in a National Park. Richard is found to be constructing an illegal track on level 5 and in his defence, I open communications with him and the area manager so he can understand why this is wrong and even state his case hoping it will help. It did not, Vince slid in on the back of this communication to ask if we cannot just legalise them. Nice one Vince, you want to see the hoops we have to jump through now?! Despite how trails around the world - built on private land- came into being, our situation is unique and stuffing it up here, can stuff it up everywhere. How do you propose we go about negotiating if you or anyone claiming the best for the people admits freely on a public forum that you ride the illegal trails just because others do. Are you not supposed to be helping or do you think that because you did not take the spot on the committee in July, (when it was offered before getting public approval) that it now entitles you to head off and and ride tracks that are bothering SANParks Table Mountain National Park North, Central and South. Do you realise that the audacity to post photos in public standing in front of illegal trails out of defiance.. and here's the kicker.. for what you want for the people you may land up representing, is fuel to the fire that keeps thousands of law abiding riders huddled on 7kms of trails that actually wil be scientifically proven soon cannot cater for this amount. You are right, Parks probably won't punish the good guys because of what the few are doing, but watch them drag their heels. Watch them deem that 7kms of singletrack is not sustainable for the amount of riders frequenting Tokai and watch as they finally impose a daily quota of 200, 100, 50 riders to enter the park while they deliberate over our vision for world class trails. You underestimate the landowner and you underestimate the strain you are placing on the area manager. She is our friend but your statement and stance on what it takes to negotiate, conflicts severely with what you are promising people. (Have I not warned you about over-promising? After 3 years, do you still not know TMNP is a slow moving body?) You are making Kandui's life a pain too with your defiance. North are quoting issues around illegal trails in Central accentuated by issues around trails like The Glen. (for another topic, but do you realise that building and riding in the Glen is pissing off walkers and residents, the same people who we need approval from in a public participation process to get, "world class trails".) The blocks you have built up around each issue needs to be broken down and looked at from a high level perspective. There is one land owner, one area of land, Central is not separate from North and what you say here and withhold in other places is hurting (our?) cause. It is in the best interest while the forum negotiates on everyone's behalf, that I would advise everyone who has once ridden these trails to stop now and start policing themselves before Parks needs to intervene. Show your support before the AGM, vote for whoever you want but please, for your own sake show Parks we are serious and close those tracks!

I am shocked at what I am seeing! This is a dilemma. Whoa! I see also I am being called out to report on where the money went on facebook.. I cannot fight on two fronts, I am one person. In the wise words of Gary Barnard at the TMMTB meeting, "document everything and when the trouble starts, and it will, this will be the first question, where is the money?" Meurant has a copy of all this. I was required to keep track of all expenses. If reports were not sent, money was not paid. I have one of these for each month, except where months have been combined. TokaiMTB12.10 - Trail Repair Report_R.xlsx.pdf AMA12-12.10 TokaiMTB Op costs Oct.xlsx.pdf I have had no other desire than to provide continuity from Cobus to the next person suited to handle MTB matters in Tokai. Sure, I'm not a pro by any means but 11 years experience in maintenance must count for something? 10 of them free. I can also disclose the for 19 days on average working on the mountain I earned R10 000, this time spent on the hill kept me from seeking work that sustained my personal life and essentially equated for half of what I should have been earning. To supplement this short-fall, I worked nights, sometimes through, in order to keep to tight deadlines from client requirements sent to me by email in the day. I have also used my personal vehicle for the period leading up to the generous donation from Karl who could see my commitment to the people and mountain, should not be at the cost of damage to my car. 1hr after meeting this stranger and presenting what process was running, Karl told me to go and get quotes! Based on what I am reading here, I don't think it wise I go to the meeting tonight. Duane, agree? In fact I don't know what this will do to the advertised election, I don't feel like this is fair anymore, certainly not on me.

I was waiting for this, I agree with Myles. I don't feel like I can meet with this group given the circumstance around how this election has come about. I thought I could but if I read where this is going, I can't help but wonder why we needed to waste 8 months to get to where we were going anyway. Please don't anyone tell me to bury the hatchet, there is information that has not been disclosed yet, much like the information hidden behind the Tokai DH closed facebook group, there is info you don't want to present in public and information you have purposely not relayed to the group that will have serious repercussions down the line. (I can go into depth and maybe I will because GoLefty has already alluded to something that you Duane, have not considered despite me warning you, the illegal trails!). The closed Facebook page is the epitome of the challenges I have had with Vince over the last 3 years. Duane, what would happen if you and Vince got a spot on the new committee? Would that not put us back to July when you and Vince were offered a spot on the committee anyway? And you know a committee has to be publicly ratified so that was coming. It could have avoided THIS, and the confusion you have created around who these people now need to vote for. Why all the hostility to get something that was best for Tokai from the start? All I can see is that you, Richard, Vince and John have had the chance to drag the efforts of those who are making a difference through the mud, when you could have trusted me and offered your guidance if that's what you feel you will be offering if you were to be voted on. Or are we just going to carry on with the disinformation behind closed doors hey Vince? The way I see it, what will be different?

I'm going to read the rest of this thread, but only given that you've missed most of the day. I am already weary..

As I said before, it was only interim until ratified. If we run an open election, that's all good too. We had the choice of one or the other, now it's the other. Edit: Interim to establish NPO, bank account etc.. Cant have an VA account without some signed constitution. The ratified version would be updated at all points of registry. The constitution BTW is on page 1 if anyone is still looking.

Well, yes and no. Gary has been very interested but still waiting for final commitment. There are reasons why.. but for all purposes, we are starting again.. this was just interim and the AGM on the 18th is going ahead...

A pro has got good experience and can provide for a wide range of riders. Money is secondary to good trails.. but everyone needs money so it is the necessary evil.

I will confim with the group. It was agreed in the forum as the date that suited all. I really hope not, but if it is needed then that is what must be done.

There's a problem. That date is wrong, in the minutes the date was set for the 19th. Seems we will have to adjust and repost the amended info.

..EDIT "Not sure what all the fuss is about"?, C'mon Johno, ..EDIT EDIT: Ok, low blow. Sorry Johno.

I forgot.. The TMMTB forum oversees activities of all members too as the one has an affect on the other, TMNP being the common denominator. So add that as another level of control.