JayLow

I had an alloy 2016 Momsen Vipa XC bike which I rode for 3 years (2021 - 2024) and was very happy with. Sold it because it was getting old and I was itchy for a carbon frame. Upgraded the Vipa to a 2022 Titan Cypher Carbon Expert 120 with an upgraded (Lyne) wheelset and I am loving it. Solid spec components with lots of upgrade potential (Sram brakes), but for the price I paid the value is out of this world. I also bought a used Momsen R355 gravel bike this year and although it's still early days, I am happy with it. It's super light carbon and Sram Force all over, so much better than anything else in the same price bracket. I am super impressed and happy with the offerings from Momsen and Titan, and would probably never buy brands that are so much more expensive for similar spec, just so I can have a particular sticker on my frame. Groupset and component spec matter more than the sticker on the frame (to me). Now that I think about it, I have not heard anything bad about Titan. People mention that they're heavier but, unless you race for podiums, an extra kg in the frame is almost inconsequential.

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yep i struggled at around 2pm

OP, how have you been doing @sias?

Absolutely agree! I do 10 disciplines in parallel otherwise I get bored: Pool swim OW swim MTB Road bike Indoor bike Trail run Road run Treadmill run Strength training Yoga Each of these cause a slightly different physiological adaptation, and since I spread myself too thin across all the disciplines (struggle to exceed 8 hours active per week) I'll never break any records in any one of them, but I'm always cross training so I almost never get injuries and maintain a fitness where I can do an IM70.3 or equivalent at any point in time. For practical reasons I divide it into hitting the following every week (target in brackets) Swim (30min) Bike (3hr+) Run (1hr+) Strength (1hr) Yoga (30min) I tailor the ratios and intensity depending on events in my calendar and what I feel like doing (I do whatever I want, dammit), but at this rate I can stay injury free and maintain general fitness, sanity, and SO relations. EDIT, basically I do a light version of the person @ChrisF shared about above

[EDIT: Maybe not relevant for OP situation, but I thought I'd share my 2c on a general lack motivation to do what's good] Relying on motivation is not a sustainable way to maintain a good habit. It's unreliable. Start by reflecting on the reason why you want to train Do you want to elevate your well-being and quality of life? Do you want to enjoy the outdoors? Do you want to challenge yourself and build your character with voluntary discomfort? Do you want to improve your mental efficiency? Do you want to find a place for community and build friendships? Do you want to tick off a major bucket list event, or series of events? Find YOUR why, something that will outlast the tempests and inevitable changes in your world. But, I'm serious, really reflect deeply on it - find a why that aligns with your values an identity as a person, something that is inseparable from who you are. Start there and really build the belief that I WANT to train because X. Then, implement techniques to reduce the friction to actually do it, in ways that satisfy your why. Get a training partner for accountability Use something like Strava to set goals and build streaks and get those short term dopamine hits Set out your gear the night before Set achievable, short term targets, build systems to achieve those targets, and long term goals will take care of themselves Nurture your bike or kit so that you feel you want to bless it with a ride Take time to appreciate the privilege of just being able to huff and puff and contract muscles and feel the wind and sunshine and beautiful nature, or the taste of blood at the end of a few Z5 intervals Find what works for you Then, set forgiving and realistic principles like: Never miss two workouts in a row Even a 20min walk is a workout Regularly try something new (new route, new intensity, whatever) Stretch But all this is HEVEL/vapour/beyond reach without a clear and convincing WHY Most people who struggle to train lack conviction - they do not really want to train, they think they do but they don't. If you really want to have a habit like this, you will find a way.[1] When this message landed for me a few years ago I actually started finding it more difficult to break my streak than to keep it going. [1][unless you have a health condition or demanding personal situation that really constrains you, like having two kids under two years old, or being a single parent with limited support or financial means]

In addition to getting LBS' pov, Strava heatmaps also give a directionally useful answer: White lines mean many people ride there, blue lines mean not many people ride there.

This Titan is in another class compared to both of them: https://bike-addict.co.za/collections/dual-suspensions/products/titan-cypher-120-limited-alloy-2023 (and it's in your original budget)

Agree, and it's not that difficult to spot a vrot bike, if you know what to look for. E.g., when I bought my Titan I saw the frame was still basically mint (no crashes), the chain was still above 0.75, it had the factory tyres on (they looked new), the brake rotors still had their orange tags, and, above all, the previous owner fitted an aftermarket stem very high angle. This told me that not only was the bike lightly used, the person riding it was not a risk taking boy racer, it's probably someone who cruised the Spruit trail, leisurely. If all else fails, get a friend to go with you, or get your LBS to have a look. I saved more than R20k on my bike (new versus used), so I knew that even if I had to replace something major, I'd go a long way before the deal turned bad.

Stettyn is a great venue for wine tasting (great value for money!) and charcuterie, I would be keen to go and check these out!

I disagree, I have had great success with used mountain bikes. Like buying a car if you know what to look for you can tens of thousands of rand of the purchase price (even at OPs budget, which is about the same as my budget). Being luxury items, MTBs have similar depreciation rates to new cars, so a demo/slightly used model would be much cheaper than an equivalent new.

I'm 6'3 95kg and 120mm is plenty. Even 100mm was fine for majority of my riding. You can dial the suspension to suit. Most of the time there's different levels of quality with all the brands. Wheels are the main place where weight matters, so get some chunky wheels (I have Lyne AMP 30 alloy) and you're golden. Boost spacing and thiccr stanchions (32mm or higher) on your fork will also help with stiffness. I've been happy with my X-F dropper and rear shock so far, reckon if I service it and keep it at the correct pressure the spokes will break before they do.

Something else to think about, both of these are bikes are built for descending. My first dual suspension was a Giant Trance and although I loved it, I realised after a while that the bike is far too advanced (aggressive, made for gnarly stuff) for 1) my skill level, and 2) my risk appetite. So I replaced it with an older Momsen Vipa with higher spec components but built for XC. This was a good fit for the riding I did and enjoyed in Gauteng. Then I moved to the WC and I pushed that Momsen to its limit in the rocky, gnarly, flowy stuff that I'm blessed to live amongst. I loved how fast it was on the flat and dusty stuff, but as my skill improved I longed for longer travel in the back. So this year I replaced the Vipa with a Titan Cypher 120. To me it hits the sweet spot between being fast enough on the flats, and lively enough to eat some Klipwerf DHs (IYKYK). So all this just to say, if this is your first dual suspension, consider going for something less gravity focused, unless you know you'll be spending most of your time out of the saddle on singletrack descents - lugging a +140mm-travel enduro rig across gravel roads and jeeptrack is just not as fun as it could be.

Unless you are racing near the front of the pack, don't solve for weight at the expense of other stuff like quality, geometry, feel good factor. A couple of kilograms this way or that way matters very little (less than 1% effort per kilogram in most situations), and is not worth the money in my opinion (about R10k per kg reduction, is what I have heard).

and clip on aerobars - ~4% saving for less than R1k

I also thought the question related to comfort, not aero gains. This old picture of seconds saved over a 48min 40km TT comes to mind. It illustrates how miniscule the aero effect of aero bars would be... Of the 17 seconds (0.6%) saved by the frame, what fraction would be thanks to the bars? For non elite riders who don't crack a 40K in under 50mins, the aero gains would be even less. The "aerobars" in the picture is due to the different riding position (forearms parallel to the ground, as mentioned above), and not the profile of the tubing. Exact numbers would differ, but the principle stands. Source: https://velo.outsideonline.com/2010/04/biggest-bang-for-your-buck-in-time-trial-equipment/

What kind of riding will you do? Will you race for positions or will you just push yourself over weekends? How does the component spec compare between the three different options? Does it matter to you whether you run Sram or Shimano, or Rockshox, Fox, or DT Swiss (Etc)? What are the price differences? I went for a Titan Cypher 120 (Carbon Expert) because it was about +25% less expensive than similar spec Scott or Trek (R30k versus more than R40k). I also like the way it looks, and after watching Chasing the Sun it feels good to support a local brand. I also found the Spark 970 alu frame to be much heavier than the Titan Carbon (even though the Scott's integrated shock is hot af to me). (edit: subsequently also learned that a few kgs this way or that way don't matter to me) I have some buddies with the Top Fuel and they are also very happy. At the end of the day, choose the one that makes you feel good when you think about it and makes you smile when you're on it.

So 7% more power needed to lug a bike that's 55% heavier (if the rider is heavier this difference is less). The elevation in the calculator is altitude, and the grade is averaged for the entire distance, so your example's gain is 3750m. The disadvantage of the lighter rider on the descents only strengthens my resolve to not sweat about a couple of kilograms this way or that way. Sure, obviously, if you want to go pro, try to get as close to the best as you can. for the rest of us, don't sweat about a couple of kg's this way or that way!

I would argue the opposite from your example 😂. You take a pretty extreme pair of bikes in different weight classes and compare them over a 75km long climb at 5% gradient (at 2000m altitude nogal), and the 55% heavier bike only needs 6% more calories and is only 6% slower. Would be interesting to see how much more average power the heavier bike would need to match the time of the lighter bike, don't think it would be much more than about 12W. I wouldn't compare bikes in different weight classes, but even in this example the difference is less than what I expected. Yes heavier bikes will accelerate at the same rate as lighter until it gets to its terminal velocity, which would be higher than the lighter bike. F = mg (g=9.81m/s2) if gravity is the only resultant force on the object (no pedaling!). Since this force is higher for heavier bikes, it will push harder against friction and air resistance, and achieve a higher terminal velocity (when friction and wind resistance cancels out the gravitational force). Heavier bike also has more momentum to maintain speed when rolling over obstacles, but will take more energy to turn around corners Agree! My whole point in starting this thread was to share the revelation I had of my folly in obsessing to find a bike that's 1 or 2 kg lighter!

It's pretty fun to play with http://bikecalculator.com. In my world, I need about 1% more power to counteract 1kg of extra weight. This is outside of the measuring tolerance of my electronic power meter and also my somatic power meter. The mathematics align pretty closely with reality in simple cases like this, calculating the energy needed to lift a mass a certain height is high school level physics. Add a time element to turn energy to power, and Bob's your uncle. It's not that it doesn't count, it's just that it only counts a little. Far less than what the Cycling Industrial Complex would have us believe.

I am an engineer, so I am always looking for ways to make mathematics and science practical. The reality is that every single event in the history of the world is (probably) absolutely and completely unique, but that does not mean that we cannot infer useful information from it. (this is also why I tried to "unitise" the information to generalise it away from the arbitrary example used in the pinkbike video)

Unfortunately Galileo tested that theory in the 16th century and found that acceleration due to gravity is independent of the mass of the object. However, if you are heavier you will have more momentum and may be able to retain more speed as you pass over obstacles, you may also have a higher terminal velocity, and be less affected by wind. The difficulty of gravity, like so many things in life, is that you lose more energy going up than you save going down. Thanks entropy.

Ah such an interesting perspective - wonder what the equivalent XCO or XCM table would look like... Granted, being less than 1 kg over is not major, but for these multiple hour stages it just demonstrates again that weight is not the dominant factor. The rule of thumb I'm using from now on is that for every kilo your kit is heavier, you need to make up about 5 seconds for every 100m of vert (it's less than that - the example loses 3.5 seconds per kg over 100m). Would be interesting to see some real experimental data on the impact different factors in converting watts to speed. Lifting the weight against gravity is just a small part of the equation of getting a bicycle to move.

For the sake of completion The table states 18.15mins, which is closer to 18m9s, not 18m15s. Likewise for 18.53mins which is 18m32 (not 18m53s). This brings the 38 second difference down to 23 sec. And that's for a 3.3kg difference, which is extreme, and it assumes all other factors being equal. Agree, if you arrive at a XCO event with a Enduro bike you will (probably) get smoked. You may be in with a chance if your bike is within 2kgs and you had a good sleep...

Please forgive: I am just jealous because I find a Supercaliber to be very desirable.