davetapson

Yeah, soon as you see a sweeping statements like x% of cows are raised in factory farms, you already know it's BS, or if you prefer, not the whole story, or possibly more accurately, less than half the story. There's a process that is typically followed, and it's not 'raising cows on factory farms.' It's possible that 70% of cattle may be finished in feedlots, but this concept of 'oh the cows live for x years in a factory' just isn't how it happens. We'll use Wikipedia as it's so well regarded on this thread... I'll chop out the stuff that's not pertinent because reading more than 140 characters is hard these days... I'll also italicize something that is kind of a big issue. I'll put the link at the bottom of the post. Cattle are domesticated ungulates, a member of the family Bovidae, in the subfamily Bovinae, and descended from the aurochs (Bos primigenius).[34] Cattle are often raised by allowing herds to graze on the grasses of large tracts of rangeland called ranches. Raising cattle in this manner allows the productive use of land that might be unsuitable for growing crops. Once cattle obtain an entry-level weight, about 650 pounds (290 kg), they are transferred from the range to a feedlot to be fed a specialized animal feed ... So we're quite happily disregarding the herds that provide the offspring that go into the feedlots and all that they and the processes around them represent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming PS: If it's something you feel strongly about, there are alternatives too - you can always support guys like Angus McIntosh https://www.farmerangus.co.za/ or farmers like the Salatins http://www.polyfacefarms.com/ or come to NZ where they're producing Wagyu off grass.

Re Suzi's. Yep, and that would be the sensible way to go. But until we've bought a house etc, spending appreciable cash (appreciable being not very much) on toys will go down like a cup of cold sick. So I scroll through TradeMe thinking 'what if'. Have got the licence process under way tho, so hopefully when the cash becomes available I should have the full licence...

Buddy of mine sold one car and ubered to work. Reckoned it was cheaper and more convenient, but then he lived in Hyde Park and worked in Sandton. There's definitely a time and place for it.

Hey Patches Couple questions: 1. Will you need to bung indicators on to it? 2. Is road registering an onerous thing? Reason I ask is there are often farm bikes on TradeMe that are not badly priced... XR's etc.

Well, on the face of it they don't seem much to understand dynamic systems. Or choose not to, probably because it's detrimental to the permanence of their employment..? Dunno.

Put in some pastures with hedgerows. Boom.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!?? You trying to tell me vegans don't fart..??

So much BS. Greenhouse gas emissions due to cows in the US? 2.03% Greenhouse gas emissions due to vegan agriculture? 4.57% So vegans emit 200+% more greenhouse gas than cows. And that doesn't even include the greenhouse gases emitted by vegans/vegetarians THEMSELVES!! Which, as anyone who has tried it will tell you is not unappreciable.... [emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]

Kill all the birds... The silent spring reference is referring to Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring. It's worth a read. Esp. if you think growing plants is a benign process.

Vegans: This is WRONG!!! The cattle must be killed and IT MUST BE PLOUGHED UP AND CABBAGES PLANTED!!! Because that is the RIGHT THING TO DO!!

Cow fertilizer production (sequestering the carbon created in fertilizer production from fossil fuels) If it wasn't for us meat eaters saving the world from vegan destruction, we'd be farked. Now vegans want to kill the cows as well?!

For what? Because facts hurt the cause of veganism? More veganism paradise... Fertilizer production:

Cows sequester carbon. http://www.dasnr.okstate.edu/Members/donald-stotts-40okstate.edu/carbon-sequestration-a-positive-aspect-of-beef-cattle-grazing-grasslands/#content Reduce global warming (created by all the plastic factories that make vegan stuff [emoji6]), eat a cow. It's the right thing to do. Mighty tasty too.... [emoji39][emoji39][emoji39]

I'll help you out. 10% for livestock purposes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_production_in_the_United_States

I don't get how ploughing up entire ecosystems to grow plants is a good thing. Lets not hurt the cows, lets rather obliterate every living thing except e.g. wheat plants, and the poison the hell out of anything that remains that tries to eat it (insects/insecticide) or grow with it (weeds/glyposate.) Of course whatever other things that don't eat wheat that are still around and eat the poisoned insects (starlings amongst others) end up dying as well, and the things that eat the poisoned wheat (us, glyphosate/insecticides) are waiting to see what the long term effects are going to be. Following the logic, this is vegan heaven (replace the wheat with soybeans / whatever floats your boat)...

Our local bike warehouse for prices... https://www.torpedo7.co.nz/shop/bike/bikes-and-frames Sales are a big thing in NZ. They happen so regularly and so commonly that it's hard to understand why anyone would walk in and pay full price. It's probably been mentioned before, but electric bikes are a big thing here, even for scooting around trails. Probably because hills, and more likely, probably because fun.

Here's a youtube of the track from the top of Te Mata - this guy did it a bit more gracefully than me... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDOMRDhjkVQ

Yesterday's plus... Te Mata Peak, Havelock North. Well worth a visit. K4kked myself on a single track on the way down - the exposure is unreal. Got off and walked more than once. Bike wash facilities at the gate (no, I didn't use them...) Potential minus - Craggy Ridge wine estate at the bottom of that valley has a $110 steak. (No I didn't try it...)

Current minus...

Better and better! Next time you're feeling flush, look for Mollydooker which is a Barossa red. Is $40 odd, but flpn awesome...

That's exactly the sort of thing one needs to know, thanks man. Have just been down in Napier drinking Pinot Noir and thinking it wasn't all it could be! Yep, the raising the kids thing is different, but we are much more involved than we would be in SA, and that is a good thing.

US was in my sights. Last time I was there a buddy said yep, it's cool, but you really have to be set up for retirement, esp regards medical, as medical issues are the number one cause of family bankruptcies. We're a bit too close to that age and stage.

Couple more negatives: In SA we employed a maid, a nanny and an au pair - we've got 9 yo twins. Holidays, kids being sick, whatever, no problem. Here, kids need to go to some kind of holiday club during the holidays, and if one is sick, we either need to take leave or work from home. Holiday club is expensive, esp for 2x everything. We put them in to afterschool for two days a week, not too expensive, but a cost one might choose to spend on something else. School is cheap. Uniforms are sensible. Booze is a shocker. R400 for a bottle of Gordon's gin, a beer out is going to cost R100+ for sure. Quaffable wine about R140 a bottle, you can get cheaper. Really good wine probably R400. Kid friendly restaurants are not a thing here. There is a Spur in Auckland. It is seriously k4k. And expensive. They use fancy high heat steak cookers here. They're very proud of them. They make the steak taste of burned fat to me. Motorcycles are made from dehydrated single malt going by the price of even a pile of junk. Driving any distance is a pain in the butt unless you are seriously zen. But it's lovely. Wouldn't change it for the world. No mini bus taxis. No violence unless you go find it. Left my phone in a public restroom on the beach, used 'find me' to locate it, went to the house it was at and they said yep, we've got it, didn't want to leave it there in case it got stolen, just reported it found to the local police station. More often than not don't lock the door, and although probably not wise, have woken to find the tv still there. Air is clean, son's asthma has gone. North shore Dr is $50, but script is std $5. Probably worst thing is property price. Sold 4 bed/3000 sqm in Benoni for R2.5M, that would make a deposit here, just, had the house been paid off. Some other weirdnesses: Can't get proper Advil CS, or Transact patches. Fuel expensive. Cars cheap.

Could be a few degrees warmer. Just a bit too close to the south pole...

Yeah, changed the country's law to try and get back at his ex-wife - farkd everyone over in the process.