JBK

You didn't have to read it BTW... but I'm glad you did and hope that you're more enlightened now than you were 3 hours ago (see I'm giving you kudos there for a great argus time)...

To quote someone else from another thread : "Was waiting for someone to mention pine gel. It’s the biggest waste of money, and the chemical companies selling it are making thousands off people who think it’s amazing. There’s a pine fragrance and a pine oil - the latter is expensive and hard to get hold of. Chances are most companies are making it from pine fragrance, so you get a blob of gel with a nice smell. There are better, cheaper products out there that do a better job, and also water-based."

Eish your poor baby, oops, sorry, bike... I guess you've also ditched the shampoo and soap and just use dishwashing liquid in the bath / shower also...

Yup, I know that but people just don't wanna hear it... I believe the salt also makes it thick... Dishwashing liquid has to be abrasive to remove the stuff that it does. That's why it dulls car paintwork when used consistently over time... I'm not saying it won't clean a bike, but rather that it's not going to be kind to your bike, car, etc in the long run...

Yup... Unashamedly so... I discovered the product about 18 months ago and love it... Going into lock down I also came across the best sanitizer which is the only 70% alcohol one I've found that doesn't destroy your skin and its active for up to 4 hours... So lo and behold, I said to my wife "let's start an online store selling all these awesome products that we use ourselves"... We added Herbal Iceman Cooling Gel to the equation and Bobs your Auntie we launched our new business venture : www.stealthhealth.co.za Thanks for asking [emoji6]

You're gonna get loads of comments and should search these forums for (many) previous discussions... You know that Cleen Green is corrosive...!! Has Sodium Hydroxide, caustic soda, and another acid with a name to long to type and shouldn't be allowed within 10m of a bicycle... As always, my suggestion is ecologic - non toxic, non corrosive & food safe - that kinda says it all... It's even a registered disinfectant so you can even use it in your kitchens and bathrooms https://stealthhealth.co.za/ecologic/ And now to address the next 20 people who are going to recommend either dish washing liquid or only water : Why the hard headed approach for "Dishwashing Liquid for everything"..? I get it that we're all annoyed with Marketing mumbo jumbo, especially suppliers selling the same thing with different names for different pricing. But Dishwashing Liquid is exactly that.! Dish Washing Liquid.! That's what they call it and that's the purpose for which they market and sell it. They don't advertise it as a general purpose cleaner, do they.? So why use it as such.? We've moved on as a civilisation and have specific products that are better for some things than other things. I also get the "I don't need to wash my bike" story but I don't really understand it.! Why have only an 80% clean bike.? I confess that when I do a relatively short (mid week) ride where my bike gets only a bit dusty and one or two splashes of mud, I will come home and just gently spray it off with a gentle hose whilst rubbing the frame, rims, etc gently with the soft inside of my riding gloves. But I will always give the drivetrain either a wipe down or a good clean - with the cost of chains and 12 speed cassette's these days, you don't want to cause dirt to reduce your product lifespan by 50%.! But this doesn't leave my pride and joy looking like it did when it was new.! Hence a proper wash after the weekend riding or at most every second week. Drive train gets wiped down with a very diluted degreaser sprayed onto a cloth or when cleaned, sprayed directly onto the drivetrain. I use ECOLOGIC and have been doing so for a few years already. It's cheap as chips, non-toxic, non-corrosive, non-abrasive and works a charm on everything bike, car and in and around the house. Let's look at the numbers : ecoLogic is R230 for a very concentrated 5L bottle - I use a ratio of 1:100 for washing bikes, cars and floors in the house. So 30ml to 3L water in a bucket - so R 1.38 per wash cycle. I also premix into a spray bottle at a ratio of 1:6.5 (100ml to 650ml Water into a 750ml spray bottle), so R 4.60 and about 30-40ml of this to spray the drivetrain, so 25c per wash. With a total of R 1.63 to wash my bike and make it look like new. Is it really worth holding fast to dishwashing liquid.? I do agree that other 'pre diluted' bike wash brands on the shelf are absurdly priced where the cost per wash will be about R30 - R40. It works so well and is so cost effective and a registered disinfectant that ecoLogic has now replaced 90% of all other cleaning products in our home and we're saving a fortune.! Yes, we do still use dishwashing liquid for the dishes and Stasoft / Omo etc for the clothes but a tiny bit of ecoLogic also works wonders to clean soap-sud grime out the pipes of washing machines. And to be clear... * Use at very low concentrations for general washing (cars, bikes, floors, etc) - rinse, wash, rinse, dry do not leave to stand in between. Typically 1:100 / 1:150 * Use at mild concentrations for drivetrain - spray on cassette and chain whilst turning crank - enough to cover, don't drench such that it will settle into bearings - leave for a few minutes then clean with a small brush (I use a nail brush), rinse, done, dry, apply lube. Typically 100ml : 650ml in a 750ml spray bottle. * You should never leave your bike standing with any cleaning agent applied * Use also at mild concentrations to remove mud stains from your riding kit * Use also at mild concentrations to clean and disinfect cycling shoes (with a soft brush). Once dry, spray with Viromist to freshen, fragrance and keep germ free.

Thanks for the inclusion of HOPE - note very similar to the CSIXX 12% : 14% and 113 degrees : 115 degrees so would expect these two to feel very similar. I'm wondering if one might feel a difference between the Wolf Tooth / Race Face Vs CsIXX / AB - the opposite extremes of the curve...

Thanks Wayne Pudding Mol but I'm riding Race Face Crank with Cinch attachment detail so this won't fit.

Or go for a 26 / 38 up front this will increase your range from 0.57 / 3.09 to 0.62 / 3.45 - that's 12% more top-end. I personally never understood that 2x11 gearing with 24 / 34 up front.

**This is NOT a "to Oval or not to Oval" thread so please let's not let it get back to that age old debate** ***This is ALSO NOT a "what size oval compares to my round" thread so please let's avoid this also*** My question pertains more specifically to any experience with the different brands of Oval Chain Rings. I've done some research and it seems as though they differ quite significantly between suppliers, although its questionable as to whether the differentiation is noticeable, better or worse on the trails. Also interesting that reviewers have tested most, if not all, but there's no comparisons to be found anywhere. I normally ride a 34T Round and have not been unhappy with this. Most of my mates ride Oval although some tried and went back to Round. I had a loan crank whilst mine was being warrantied by the manufacturer and this had a 32T oval (CSIXX) chain ring. I rode it on two decent rides and could not feel any difference in the pedal stroke but I definitely felt less fatigued at the top of climbs that I've done enough times to know my standard. The smaller chainring is irrelevant as I was riding smaller sprocket to compensate and managing same / usual speed. Coming back to my Round, I'm pretty sure that the Oval definitely has some benefit for me. So I've decided that I'm going to try one out (34T) but I've been researching and found very different Ovality and Clocking : Ovality - the percentage above and below a normal round ring. So 10% ovality means that the oval diameter ranges from 95% to 105% of the equivalent Round Ring. This seems to range from 8% to 14%. The higher this is, the more non-round the chain ring. Clocking - "describes the angle between the crank arm and the largest diameter of the oval, measure anti-clockwise from the crank arm". This seems to range from 112.5 degrees to 115 degrees. This affects where on the pedal stroke the maximum / minimum will be. What I've found from different suppliers : Absolute Block (seems the most oval / aggressive) - Ovality between 10.2 & 14.4%, with timing of 110.5-116.3Wolf Tooth - Ovality 10% / clocking 112 degrees [one reviewers comment "Smoother feel than other oval rings we have tried"]Race Face - Ovality 10% / clocking 112.5 degreesCSIXX - Ovality 14% / clocking 115 degreesROTOR - Ovality 12.5% / no clocking infoOne Up - Ovality 12% / clocking 115 degrees [32T & Smaller]One Up - Ovality 10.5% / clocking 115 degrees [34T & 36T]HOPE - Ovality 12% / clocking 113 degrees [Added thanks Ossie NL]SRAM - Ovality 12% / no clocking info [Added] I'm personally thinking to stick with something less aggressive, like the Race Face but any thoughts from anyone who has more insight / experience with the different rings would be greatly appreciated. If you're going to comment, please substantiate your reasoning / thoughts. Please no "yo man you have to go with absolute black because they're a cool brand.!"

PS: for those using Santizer, at least try this one : https://stealthhealth.co.za/viromist-plus/ 70% alcohol, 0.5% chlorhexidene AND moisturising Aloe Vera - perhaps this will keep the tyres nice and rubbery...? Alternatively use it to protect your home, office and self from the spread of those pesky viruses...

These discussions are really so amusing... I have visions of similar discussions between doctors in the mid 1850's, soon after the invention of anesthesia, some saying it works great and others holding fast that there's nothing wrong with a thick wooden plank for the patient to bite on instead... To those who use dishwashing liquid, I assume that you've also stopped buying hand and body soap as well as shampoo, conditioner, floor and surface cleaners and disinfectants, etc as dishwashing liquid should also be perfect for these pesky tasks...? If not, then perhaps you should, you'll save a fortune, maybe... To those who use nothing but water, I assume you, also, have stopped buying hand and body soap as well as shampoo, conditioner, floor and surface cleaners and disinfectants, etc as a good soaking with cold water works a charm... Just having some fun people... Have a great day and go ride your bikes...

Sorry mate but unfortunately that's what national courier costs for heavier items...

LOL...

Reminds me of one of my daughters books about an owl looking for a mate... Endlessly calling out T'WIT awaiting his mate to reply T'WOO...

Nope - I'm not Jack Frost - I'm JBK... I do know JF but buy my Ecologic (and other stuff) from www.stealthhealth.co.za

Gents, to quote from another previous thread Seriously, why the hard headed approach for "Dishwashing Liquid for everything"..? I get it that we're all annoyed with Marketing mumbo jumbo, especially suppliers selling the same thing with different names for different pricing. But Dishwashing Liquid is exactly that.! Dish Washing Liquid.! That's what they call it and that's the purpose for which they market and sell it. They don't advertise it as a general purpose cleaner, do they.? So why use it as such.? We've moved on as a civilisation and have specific products that are better for some things than other things. I also get the "I don't need to wash my bike" story but I don't really understand it.! Why have only an 80% clean bike.? I confess that when I do a relatively short (mid week) ride where my bike gets only a bit dusty and one or two splashes of mud, I will come home and just gently spray it off with a gentle hose whilst rubbing the frame, rims, etc gently with the soft inside of my riding gloves. But I will always give the drivetrain a either a wipe down or a clean - with the cost of chains and 12 speed cassette's these days, you don't want to cause dirt to reduce your product lifespan by 50%.! But this doesn't leave my pride and joy looking like it did when it was new.! Hence a proper wash after the weekend riding or at most every second week. Drive train gets wiped down with a diluted degreaser sprayed onto a cloth or when cleaned, sprayed directly onto the drivetrain. I use ECOLOGIC and have been doing so for a few years already. It's cheap as chips, non-toxic, non-corrosive, non-abrasive and works a charm on everything bike, car and in and around the house. Let's look at the numbers : ecoLogic is R230 for a very concentrated 5L bottle - I use a ratio of 1:100 for washing bikes, cars and floors in the house. So 30ml to 3L water in a bucket - so R 1.38 per wash cycle. I also premix into a spray bottle at a ratio of 1:6.5 (100ml to 650ml Water into a 750ml spray bottle), so R 4.60 and about 30-40ml of this to spray the drivetrain, so 25c per wash. With a total of R 1.63 to wash my bike and make it look like new. Is it really worth holding fast to dishwashing liquid.? I do agree that other 'pre diluted' bike wash brands on the shelf are absurdly priced where the cost per wash will be about R30 - R40. It works so well and is so cost effective and a registered disinfectant that ecoLogic has now replaced 90% of all other cleaning products in our home and we're saving a fortune.! Yes, we do still use dishwashing liquid for the dishes and Stasoft / Omo etc for the clothes but a tiny bit of ecoLogic also works wonders to clean soap-sud grime out the pipes of washing machines. And to be clear... * Use at very low concentrations for general washing - rinse, wash, rinse, dry do not leave to stand in between. * Use at mild concentrations for drivetrain - spray on cassette and chain whilst turning crank - enough to cover, don't drench such that it will settle into bearings - leave for a few minutes then clean with a small brush (I use a nail brush), rinse, done, dry, apply lube. * You should never leave your bike standing with any cleaning agent applied * Use also at mild concentrations to remove mud stains from your riding kit * Use also at mild concentrations to clean and disinfect cycling shoes (with a soft brush). Once dry, spray with Viromist to freshen, fragrance and keep germ free.

Eish... and I've been waiting for this one to come up... again... seriously..?

You know that Cleen Green is corrosive...!! Has Sodium Hydroxide, caustic soda, and another acid with a name to long to type... Shouldn't be allowed within 10m of a bicycle...

Ecologic starter bundle https://stealthhealth.co.za/product/ecologic-bulk-5l-with-750ml-trigger-pop-top/

The biggest thing to consider is that it's non corrosive...

You're gonna get loads of comments and should search these forums for previous discussions... As always, my suggestion is ecologic - non toxic, non corrosive and food safe - that kinda says it all... https://stealthhealth.co.za/ecologic/

I don't get it.! I think that you are sitting in/on a little goldmine (for you) with regards your location. The suggestion of the parkrun is brilliant and coupled with my (and others) suggestion of taking ownership of the trails within 1km radius of yourself, fixing them and maintaining them, WILL bring people to you and those passing through will be eternally grateful and for sure show support. It takes one chap with an edge trimmer, a wheelbarrow, shovel, a bit of sand / cement and some time on his hands. There are parkruns further out than you where a land owner has taken it upon himself to set up and maintain a route (through other unfenced properties) - you must see how many people he gets (or used to get before lockdown regulations) to his venue - and he started from a zero base. But he worked hard and offered something of value.! You asked previously "What does Valverde offer ?" How can you be trying to compete with established venues when you haven't even been to see what they are about.! Go have a cappuccino at BIDON and then ask yourself if you can offer same. Please understand that we are not trying to be nasty or dampen your spirits but you clearly do not know the market nor your clients and you asked here for assistance. Me personally, I get excited when there's something new and am always willing to assist and support but you have to do some hard work to get even R1 out of anyone today. Sadly, it's clear that you're just not interested and want people to come and support you by parking at your location and paying you more than they would elsewhere, with less on offer, just because you asked nicely. That's just not gonna happen. Read through this full thread again and again, sleep on it and then go and do something in order to make something. Best of luck and kind regards.

That's hardly a business model for Tracey though, isn't it...! And she's trying to expand, but expand what..? More cars ? 50 x cars x R20 = R1000 before expenses... So surely she's looking for more than just safe parking for a couple of roadies...

Hi Tracey Through all of this, I cannot see what you actually offer to the cyclists and WHY you want them to visit your premises ? Are you a restaurant ? You keep saying that you want to expand but expand what ? Other than safe parking, whats on offer ? There's no trails on your property. On Facebook you mention "filter coffee" but to be honest, no one wants filter coffee anymore. With Seattle and Hey Bru available in the cradle loop, coffee has advanced to great cappuccinos etc... A couple guys above have mentioned most of what I would add to this discussion : You might be en route but you're out of the loop - so you need to come up with a value proposition to attract people. From all I'm reading of your posts, you seem to want to attract the road cyclists (and not necessarily MTB although you have some support here). The roadies either ride from home (longer distance) or drive to cradle and do that loop (shorter distance) so there's not much of a gap here for you and the intersection by you is terrible. Sure some of them park and ride from BA but not many - the huge groups typically ride from bike shops. Lots of MTB riders either ride from home or from BA but we have routes that cut across land in which ever direction we would go so there's not reason for us to park and ride from you. Chat to Brendon from Copperlake - he knows the area well and actually used to undertake some maintenance and organise fun rides. Speaking of which, we ride (MTB) past your property very often and the trails in your immediate surrounds are currently in terrible condition. As someone said before, fix up, cut the grass and maintain the trails within and around 1km of you and we'll all be most grateful and you'll most likely attract some support. Following on from this, there are many 'beginner' and 'family' cyclists that might not always want to go to Northern Farms and similar. So fix up the trails and make up some proper routes, (more than whats showing on Trail forks), maybe a 5km, 10km,15km & 20km (not difficult to organise). Ensure traversing rights and mark the routes accordingly. Then you will most likely attract people who will come and park, ride (and whatever else you have on offer). If these trails are in tip top condition I would be happy to bring the kids as somewhere different to NF. In general though, it's not a stop for us, as we ride either from home or BA and generally don't stop for anything. BA works fine. But if the trails around you were fixed up and maintained, we'd probably be very happy to support you on social family rides and maybe even a monthly contribution for maintaining the trails. You are based in a square where there is huge potential and massive MTB traffic - between the river, Lanseria Airport, R552 and R512. If I were you, I would try and tap into that. But a coffee and maybe a breakfast is not going to bring anyone as there's already soo much on offer at more convenient locations (BA / Cradle). We almost always head out or return past your property, on weekends, but there are many groups that ride shorter distances during the week that pretty much include BA to and around Lanseria and back. They've even started to fix up some of the trails themselves at the moment. Fix up the trails and you might get some social groups cycling to you for breakfast and then cycling home.You're welcome to DM me and I'll give you my number for a chat. Good Luck.