greatwhite

The ground out (smoothed) welds have the advantage of removing a (very) few grams of material, eliminating possible weld notches (that could result in cracks), but mostly aesthetics. After all, if you are expected to pay 5-10 times the price for something, it better look good. The more expensive frames are often made with better tube sets too - i.e. butted and sometimes proprietry materials (e.g. cannondale use Optimo as opposed to 6061 of their cheaper frames). Scott used to make 3 different ali frames with different tubes the cheapest was straight guage 7005 (speedster S6-S3)(1.5kg), then the butted 7005 (speedster S2 & S1)(1.2kg) and a scandium frame (old pre CR1 team issue)(1kg). As it happens all scotts Ali frames are now the same - 2008 speedster S60 to S10 are all hydroformed 7005 frames (same weight as the previous S2 & S1), I guess due to economics. Mostly it revolves around weight as you mentioned - its the easiest thing for marketing folks to sell.

When it comes to racing, I have to agree largely with madmarc - the person behind is ultimately reponsible for his/her actions. That said it is bad form to switch people, but mostly its unintentional. Usually its a result lack of skill on the part of one or both parties often coupled with fatigue especially on the part person at the back. I've been switched a few times in races and can recall an instance where someone has bailed off my wheel. No one has ever stopped for me - on one occasion it was my own team mate that switched me - he said sorry at the finish, but ultimately it wasn't his fault anyway. The only time I remember being really pissed off was being switched in the sprint on the last stage of the 'kremetart'. Coming down at over 60km/h hurt and the guy could have walked back the last 100m and said sorry, because it was a clear switch. (he had taken down someone else in a similar fashion earlier that day as well). If its just a fun ride/training session, then I'd say its bad form not to stop. Now the question arises - what is everyones definition of racing? i.e. when does a fun ride become a race? greatwhite2008-01-07 06:19:03

Can't help thinking of the silversands poker ad on TV - the woman says shes stretching her long smooth legs etc. Then the catch line about enjoying bluffing..... Nothing personal Strawberry Mama, just forums are so cool like that...

I see you got the wooden spoon award on the hub, but your employer doesn't have a wooden spoon award - their solution was a little more elegent: 'send him to Lagos' What the hell are you doing in Lagos at this time of year???

As shortlegs said - why spend the money on DA if your just a social rider. However, if you're going to do plenty miles, DA is the way to go. I did 50000km on my 9speed DA, replaced 1 chain ring, a few clusters and, as with any groupset, quite a few chains. The ultegra stuff I had has never done that well: 10-20000km and its toast. I've only just taken the that 9speed DA (which still runs nicely) off my training tractor to replace it with a 10speed I got from casci a week ago. I mostly only got the 10 speed because the price was decent and now I can swap wheels (and other parts should the unlikely need arise) with my race bike. I haven't used campag stuff in years. Their older stuff was very smooth, all their hubs were way better than shimano with the notable except of DA, but the chainrings used to wear really quickly and their cranks were quite flexible. Don't know what they are like these days, but the cranks still look 'spindley' and flexible. If this is how much campag stuff costs these days, I'd save myself plenty bucks and go the shimano route - leading right back to the Ultegra or DA question.....

OX - Right you are' date=' if you ignore the preamble Right again - my fault for not qualifying my statement - I meant the load from road to rim. Although 'unloaded' refering to the spokes would certainly be more accurate given the context of this debate. Now the main question is: How much have we actually helped mbaymike who made the original post? I suspect the simple answer is - give it to Steven from Coolheat and let his folks deal with it if it is in the warranty period. I suspect he'll still have to speak to Steven even if it isn't, because he'll need special spokes anyway.

I picked up on it because you made the comment in response something about misquotes and misunderstanding. Symantics, I know, BUT: In isolation these 2 statements certainly project a different picture, yet they are both true and don't actually contradict each other: from A: tension in all of the spokes is increased except for the few in the flat spot - it doesn't say how much the increase is from B: the tension of all the spokes do not increase significantly So from both these statements, we know the tension increases, but not a lot. from A: tension in all of the spokes is increased except for the few in the flat spot - so these are either unchanged or tension has decreased from B: with only the spokes directly under the hub decreasing their tension. So from both these statements, we know the tension decreases in the spokes below the hub. What a surprise: this matches with the result of the FEA results - a small increase in tension all around the wheel except under the hub in the loaded zone, where there is a decrease in tension This can also be demonstrated in practice by Johans experiment - pluck the spokes - they all be fairly similar except the few in the loaded zone which will have a lower pitch due to reduced tension. The more weight you load onto the hub, the lower the pitch goes in those few spokes (the others actually increase very slightly in pitch, but most folks won't pick that up).

Thats not quite what it said.

Have to go with you an this one Johan, no spoke in a wheel should ever get to a point that it is completely untensioned i.e. loose. How the washer would help this situation is not apparent. Also adding the extra thickness of the washer into the equation will mean you have to deform the spoke to go 'around' the extra thickness, damaging the spoke in the place it is already most likely to fail.

Hearing of other folks with the same luck as me make me feel a little less frustrated with bike parts breaking: 5 frames - fatigue failures around the BB 2 cranks - one was definately as a result of unsquare faces on mavic BB 1 chain (only because I replace them regularly - say 5000km absolute max) 2 Bars 1 Stem 1 saddle 2 Pedals (one steel axle & one ali casing both on time pedals) 6 rims (all fatigue failure around the eyelets, only one was a front rim) 1 rear hub flange (fatigue failure - again) 6 (maybe more) rear axles (all in the days pre integrated free hub mech) Countless rear spokes, usually drive side - regardless of who builds the wheels & 3 front spokes In crashes, I written of some more bars, stems pedal, wheels etc. I've never broken a BB, front hub or saddle pillar that I can remember. The thought of having a saddle pillar shear while your sitting is an accident that especially scares me.

My wife is looking at getting one of those new Corsas and we had a look that option, very nice, but to add R10k for a bike rack is just too much!! If it was an aftermarket manufacturer, they would supply it at R2-3k and still make a nice profit. Its the same as the towbars - while OEM towbars are often very well made peices of equipment, many folks often buy aftermarket units, because they are R1k instead of R4-5k

A plastic chair will do..... Failing that, you need to spend a bit less on your bike and get some other things in your life. BTW ALL - poll added: https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=20051&PID=316778#316778

OK, admin - add the 'Mandatory Couch Picture' to the list of classified guidlines.

definately go for the other option. At least couch photos are different!

I'm a relative newb to the 'hub' and I know that a photo is a very useful tool when you're selling something in the classified section, but what with the (rather tired) joke about the couch photo???? OK, here we go - poll added - let the masses speak......or take photos of their couch as the case may be. https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=20051&PID=316778#316778 greatwhite2007-12-15 05:35:13

No harm done . Its not really a bit issue. The problem is, that name has a habit of sticking (as egg on your face does)

Hmmmm - it appears I completely overlooked the 'she who must be obeyed' factor. Just thinking about it now, unless you have a really BIG oven, it might not fit anyway. And lay off the eggwhite thing......

Heating can be done in your oven at home - the problem tool is a press. I used a 3 tonne hand press when I did mine, which was ideal, but not everyone has such tools at their disposal.